Posted on 06/24/2014 2:13:28 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
bump
Christianity can exist without organized churchocracy and we have seen in a lot of denominations that churchocracy can definitely exist without Christianity.
RE: Before the crucifixion? When? Where?
Jesus IS alive today. He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).
Therefore, Paul met the RESURRECTED Christ as St. Luke, who also wrote the historical gospel, wrote in his historical work now known as the Book of Acts (Acts 9:1-8)
When Paul met Christ on the Damascus Road, Jesus was alive. Recall this is after the resurrection. One of the requirements of an apostle was having met Christ.
This means Jesus is alive today.
RE: “Paul did met Jesus when He was alive!”
No.
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Isn’t the resurrected Jesus the same Jesus who lived on earth before the crucifixion?
I thought you were talking about Obama and ayers there for a moment. :)
“Isn’t the resurrected Jesus the same Jesus who lived on earth before the crucifixion?”
No.
RE: Paul seems a little shady to me.
Well, are you also saying that Luke was a shady historian?
I would think so. Then if so, how can you trust the gospel of Luke?
With this, I think you believe at least one of the gospels (the most historical) is shady.
BTW, as Luke wrote, the apostles did not seem to think Paul was shady at all. He went to Jerusalem several times to report on his missionary journeys and NONE of them questioned his faith and his work.
RE: “Isn’t the resurrected Jesus the same Jesus who lived on earth before the crucifixion?”
No.
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You have to contend with the Bible then.
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” ( Hebrews 13:8)
A lot of FRoman Catholics sure hate Paul, to the point that they intellectually cut him out of Scripture. Funny thing is they that is what they falsely accuse Luther of doing.
Why? I think FRoman Catholics do so because of his emphasis on faith.
Acts 26:28. And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?”
By using that tortured logic, every Christian today could say they met Jesus while he was still alive. What is being discussed isn’t a metaphysical one, but a physical one, an actual meeting.
He might be an authority in the founding principles of this country, but he isn’t to be referred to when it comes to the foundation of Christianity.
His "cut and paste" type of Christianity = ???
He cut and pasted - out of the Bible - JUST what JESUS said and taught. He believed that JESUS WAS the foundation of what He taught!
Are you saying He wasn't?
Who led Jesus' followers after the Crucifixion?
1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
As far as I can tell, no one knows for sure who wrote any of the Gospels. The only books of the New Testament whose authorship seems to be agreed upon are the letters of Paul, and scholars aren't even sure about all of those. It seems the Bible is mostly the work of a great deal of activity in the 3rd and 4th century AD.
“Show me the following biblical verses, without having to resort to “tradition”, that in context clearly teach the following:”
Show me that Tradition is unscriptural first. You’re using a premise - sola scriptura - that is unbiblical to say the least.
Also, show me from the Bible alone that the Gospel of Matthew is inspired. Show me where it says Matthew wrote a gospel at all. Can you? Show me - using the Bible alone - what books belong in the Bible.
If you’re going to demand I use sola scriptura, I’m going to demand you prove your premise and prove sola scriptura. Can you do it?
Your prejudice, and ignorance of history, has nothing to do with reality.
“Might I suggest you read a Bible and find out how mistaken you are. And I don’t mean the Catholic version.”
I’ve read the Bible quite a bit - Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox versions - and probably know the Bible far better than you do. I am not mistaken, not even remotely.
Paul seems a little shady to me.
But then it is hard to believe this is the same man that spends so much time talking about himself and also having nothing good to say about the Apostles chosen by Jesus.
So I don`t know but I believe Jesus said all we need to hear.
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