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To: aMorePerfectUnion

amoreperfectunion:

That may partially explain it, I don’t think it explains all of it. Many priests left after Vatican II when the so ‘called spirit of Vatican II” never materialized, because the spirit of Vatican II was really not the Holy Spirit, it was a nebulous sprit that wanted the Church to conform to the modern world 100%, so many left for less stricter Churches with respect to certain moral questions that have been at the core of debates in Catholic circles [but there is a Rome that in end holds the line] and protestant groups, which are always subject to the vote of assemblies, thus issues like abortion, euthanasia, women clergy, same-sex marriage tend to split those groups. In Catholic circles, some men [priests] left over the Church not “changing with the times”, which explains a large part of the exodus and going to the Episcopalians, ELCA Lutherans and Methodists provided both a more liberal theology on those moral questions and a liturgical approach to worship.


21 posted on 06/23/2014 8:53:50 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564; aMorePerfectUnion
In Catholic circles, some men [priests] left over the Church not “changing with the times”, which explains a large part of the exodus and going to the Episcopalians, ELCA Lutherans and Methodists provided both a more liberal theology on those moral questions and a liturgical approach to worship.

It would be interesting if the data included evangelical churches, but it only included five mainline Protestant Churches (Congregational, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian), while most lay converts to Prot. are to evangelical churches*.

And not due to desire for more liberal doctrine, but overall due to spiritual deficiency they found in Rome.

But that RC priests - which the Holy Spirit never titles NT pastors, and which is a result of imposed functional equivalence, and with the defense of that title relying on etymological fallacy - would be more likely to convert to these liberal mainline denoms is to be expected, since these are the most like Rome, and perhaps they can be easily recognized as a "priest" in some.

*68% of those raised Roman Catholic still are Catholic (higher than the retention rates of individual Protestant denoms, but less than Jews at 76%). 15% are now Protestant (9% evangelical); 14% are unaffiliated. Pew forum, Faith in Flux (April 27, 2009) http://pewforum.org/uploadedfiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/fullreport.pdf


30 posted on 06/24/2014 7:30:50 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: CTrent1564

“...and protestant groups, which are always subject to the vote of assemblies, thus issues like abortion, euthanasia, women clergy, same-sex marriage tend to split those groups.”

That brief snippet is not universally true. Church polity varies greatly according to denomination.


34 posted on 06/24/2014 8:32:14 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: CTrent1564
protestant groups, which are always subject to the vote of assemblies, thus issues like abortion, euthanasia, women clergy, same-sex marriage tend to split those groups.

Well... no.

Where you find the splits tend to be in Churches who tend to follow more closely the Roman Catholic tradition of the leaders telling the assembly what they are going to believe. In both cases the clergy tends to be much more liberal about everything then the laity. Which is why you find "democratic" (assembly vote) and "republican" (pastoral vote but churches have elected their pastor) Churches tend to be much more conservative. Where you find church splits in those cases is generally in the realm of personality and fellowship rather then doctrine. Which means that you can have Churches that believe basically the same doctrine with minor variations (women wear a covering in church vs they don't or men may play on non church sports team vs they may not).

But in these Churches you usually (there are exceptions) find very conservative beliefs.

38 posted on 06/24/2014 9:00:56 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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