When Priests Leave the Church. How common is Alberto Cutis journey to Protestant ministry?

America Magzine ^ | October 5, 2009 | Stephen Joseph Fichter

[Elsie]

I’ll bet your parish is FULL of folks who are...

...poorly catechized.

[Elsie]

Where did you get your anti-Luther theology from?

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[Elsie]

I tried and it did not work.

Put <PRE> in  front of your text...

[daniel1212]

they are all divorced and remarried.

No, contrary to your limited hearsay of very restricted scope, that stats state 26% evangelicals versus 28% Catholic divorced. When you actually have an argument rather than the dregs of your own opinion let me know.

[WVKayaker]

As I said you never read a word of it by your own admission.

You don't read much, do you?

If I had not read it, I would not make that comment. The problem with the Roman Catholics on this board is that they seem to rarely read a response, but instead pick and choose and try to attack the poster. It is EXTREMELY rare to find an actual refutation to the points being made by the Protestants (and other respondents). Instead, we are mostly attacked with derision or claims of (our) ignorance.

2 Timothy 3: 1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

[LurkingSince'98]

daniel

I know that you know how to read by some of your well thought out responses however your stament that, “stats state 26% evangelicals versus 28% Catholic divorced,” does not equate at all to my position that the vast majority of fallen away Catholics that become Evangelical or other sects of protestantism are divorced and remarry a protestant.

my assertion has nothing to do with what percent of Catholics or protestants as a group are divorced.

take your own personal tally how many fallen away Catholics who are now in your faith or sect are divorced and remarried.

It happens to be every fallen away Catholic I know.

For the Greater Glory of God

[LurkingSince'98]

the one that are poorly catechized are all potential protestants.

they just want to have Catholic lite and when they don’t find Catholic lite or protestant easy in your sect or schismatic group they will move on.

AMDG

[LurkingSince'98]

I love our Catholic Popes and I lived through five of them - loved them all.

I would probably love you and you family too, however since it has been roughly 100 generations of Elsies since good old Pope Stephen of 897 AD and in that time (statistically speaking) your Elsie forbears have included liars, thieves, sadists, murderers, traitors, madmen and satanists (again statistically speaking).

Could you tell me how that should effect our love of Elsie??

your criminal and immoral forbears have nothing to do with my love and affection for you or any other individual.

as for the sinful popes only protestants don’t forgive and can manage to hold a grudge since 897 AD.

BTW Luther was a Roman Catholic monk who all take approximately the same vows and have for a thousand years.

Luther made his vows to God and broke them.

whatever reasons he had - he is now dealing with them eternally.

Requiat in Pacem, may his soul and all the souls of the faithful departed rest in peach. Amen

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam

[daniel1212]

take your own personal tally how many fallen away Catholics who are now in your faith or sect are divorced and remarried. It happens to be every fallen away Catholic I know.

That is my point. While RCs will rail against personal research as determining Truth, you do worse as your standard is that of your grand total of 4 Catholics who became evangelicals, which is very contrary to actual polling research.

I am not doubting your own experience, but that simply does not qualify as accurate research for the whole. If we concluded all RCs converts from evangelicalism are drunkards due to the 4 we knew, we would be rightly laughed to scorn.

You are better off trying the usual desperate specious "biased polling" form of damage control.

[LurkingSince'98]

again you did not read my original post I said I knew four Evangelicals who were fallen away Catholics and who divorced and remarried and are now Evangelicals.

Of every single protestant I know, and there are more than fifty only one or two are not divorced and remarried protestant.

protestants are the ones who need damage control - you are the ones who celebrate when fallen away Catholics find a place at your 'Catholic lite - protestant easy' sects.

and my number is only four Evangelicals however slightly less than 50 total protestants who are fallen away Catholics who are divorced an now protestant.

You don;t need to believe my 'biased' polling just use your eyes and count the divorced protestants among your number who are fallen away Catholics.

As I said several times protestants get our dregs and Catholics get your best:

John Adams: Beatified person and Catholic martyr.[4]

Mortimer J. Adler: American philosopher, educator, and popular author. He converted, from agnosticism, after decades of interest in Thomism.[5][6]

G. E. M. Anscombe: British analytical philosopher and theologian who introduced the term consequentialism into the English language[17]

Francis Arinze: Nigerian Cardinal and Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments[18]

Johann Christian Bach: Composer, the youngest son of Johann Sebastian Bach.[20]

Thomas Bailey (priest): A royalist and controversialist whose father was Anglican bishop Lewis Bayly.[21]

Conrad Black: A Canadian-born historian, columnist, UK peer, and convicted felon for fraud.[42]

Tony Blair: former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom; converted Dec. 22, 2007, after stepping down as prime minister[43]

Andrea Bocelli: Italian tenor.[44]

Cherry Boone: Daughter of devoutly evangelical Christian entertainer, Pat Boone; she went public about her battle with anorexia nervosa[45]

Robert Bork: American jurist and unsuccessful nominee to the United States Supreme Court. Converted to Catholicism in 2003. His wife was a former Catholic nun.[46]

G.K. Chesterton: British writer, journalist and essayist, famous for his Christian Apologetics Orthodoxy, Heretics and the Everlasting Man[64]

Christina, Queen of Sweden: Seventeenth-century monarch.[66]

Avery Dulles: American Jesuit Theologian, Professor at Fordham University.[86] (Son of former Secretary of State John Foster Dulles.)

Leonid Feodorov: An Exarch of the Russian Greek Catholic Church, he was a Gulag survivor beatified by Pope John Paul II.[102][103]

Fathia Ghali: Daughter of King Fuad I of Egypt and his Queen, Nazli Sabri. In 1950, both mother and daughter converted to Catholicism from Islam. Enraged, King Farouk I forbade them from returning to Egypt again. After Farouk's death, they asked President Anwar Sadat to restore their passports, which he did.

Alec Guinness: British actor[129] who the Catholic Association of Performing Arts (UK) named an award after.[130]

Kimberly Hahn: Former Presbyterian; theologian, apologist and author of many books[132]

Scott Hahn: Former Presbyterian minister; theologian, Scripture scholar and author of many books[133]

Thomas Morton Harper: Jesuit priest, philosopher, theologian and preacher.[134]

Chris Haw: Theologian and author of numerous books, including one detailing his conversion away from evangelical Protestantism.[135]

Levi Silliman Ives: Episcopal Church of the USA Bishop of North Carolina.[156][157]

Katharine, Duchess of Kent: The first member of the British Royal Family to convert to Catholicism for more than 300 years.[165]

Lawrence Kudlow: CNBC host and business columnist.[175][176]

William Lockhart: First member of the Oxford Movement to convert and become a Catholic priest.[187]

Frederick Lucas: Quaker who converted and founded The Tablet.[189]

Clare Boothe Luce: American playwright, editor, politician, and diplomat. Wife of Time-Life founder Henry Luce. She worked on the screenplay of the nun-themed film Come to the Stable and became a Dame of Malta.[190][191]

Marshall McLuhan: Canadian philosopher of communication theory. Coined the terms the medium is the message and the global village. Converted in 1937 after reading the works of G.K. Chesterton.

Thomas Merton: American Trappist monk and spiritual writer.[202]

Richard John Neuhaus: Priest, founder and editor of the journal First Things.[218]

John Henry Newman: English Priest and Cardinal, famous for his autobiographical book Apologia Pro Vita Sua in which he details his reasons for converting[219]

Keith Newton: Formerly an Anglican bishop.[31]

Donald Nicholl: A British historian and theologian who has been described as "one of the most widely influential of modern Christian thinkers."[220]

and many more next time

I love to see protestantism's brightest and best convert to the Roman Catholic Church while you celebrate 'winning over' our divorced huddled masses yearning to have it easy.

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam

[verga]

You celebrate a man who made a vow to God to be celibate and who broke that vow.

Are we going to see a similar article when he breaks his "vow" to his wife and they divorce?.

Once you break one vow to God it becomes easier to break another.

[Elsie]

It is EXTREMELY rare to find an actual refutation to the points being made by the Protestants (and other respondents).

---

Let's try some easy math:

There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;

If merely 1% of them  'ask' Mary for help just once each day;

that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.

Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)

...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Purty good fer someone NOT 'devine'!

[Elsie]

...they just want to have Catholic lite...They do?!?

Mind reading the ENTIRE group!

What powers you have!

(What is Catholic Lite?)

[Elsie]

... your criminal and immoral forbears have nothing to do with my love and affection for you or any other individual.

My oh my!

JUDGING my ancestors is so EASY for you.

[Elsie]

... I would probably love you ...

O...
K...

[Elsie]

as for the sinful popes only protestants don’t forgive and can manage to hold a grudge since 897 AD.

Luther

Luther

Luther!

Luther!!

LUTHER!!!

[Elsie]

Once you break one vow to God it becomes easier to break another.

Once one has been TAUGHT that their chosen religion is the best, the only one, the WAY to Heaven; it's EASY to be smug and arrogant about all kinds of things.

[JPX2011]

that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Fundies limited by time and space. Apparently they have more in common with the deGrasse Tyson's of the world than they realize.

[Elsie]

Fundies limited by time and space

Yup; it's the world we live in.

And you CLAIM that it can mesh smoothly with Heaven who has NO time in it.

I hope you NEVER have to drive a vehicle without an automatic transmission.

[LurkingSince'98]

I didn’t judge your forebears God does that - they were what they were.

Which has nothing to do with who you are or who our recent Popes are.

AMDG