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To: Mr Rogers; Elsie; metmom
The problem is that there is ZERO indication that ‘Sacred Tradition’ involves some oral teaching passed down from Pope to Pope.

How can we know which traditions are apostolic and which are merely human? The answer is the same as how we know which scriptures are apostolic and which are merely human—by listening to the magisterium or teaching authority of Christ’s Church. Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles. After all, Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" 1 Tim 3:15

But as both Paul and Peter revealed, after them would come wolves to attack the flock and “draw away the disciples after them...”

The Catholic Church traces its origin to Jesus Christ and the Apostles through a documented line of successors.


What is the History of Your Church?

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Church Year Established Founder Where Established
 
Catholic 33 Jesus Christ Jerusalem
 
Orthodox 1054 Schismatic Catholic
Bishops
Constantinople
 
Lutheran 1517 Martin Luther Germany
 
Anabaptist 1521 Nicholas Storch &
Thomas Munzer
Germany
 
Anglican 1534 Henry VIII England
 
Mennonites 1536 Menno Simons Switzerland
 
Calvinist 1555 John Calvin Switzerland
 
Presbyterian 1560 John Knox Scotland
 
Congregational 1582 Robert Brown Holland
 
Baptist 1609 John Smyth Amsterdam
 
Dutch Reformed 1628 Michaelis Jones New York
 
Congregationalist 1648 Pilgrims and Puritans Massachusetts
 
Quakers 1649 George Fox England
 
Amish 1693 Jacob Amman France
 
Freemasons 1717 Masons from four lodges London
 
Methodist 1739 John & Charles
Wesley
England
 
Unitarian 1774 Theophilus Lindey London
 
Methodist Episcopal 1784 60 Preachers Baltimore, MD
 
Episcopalian 1789 Samuel Seabury American Colonies
 
United Brethren 1800 Philip Otterbein &
Martin Boehn
Maryland
 
Disciples of Christ 1827 Thomas & Alexander
Campbell
Kentucky
 
Mormon 1830 Joseph Smith New York
 
Methodist Protestant 1830 Methodist United States
 
Church of Christ 1836 Warren Stone &
Alexander Campbell
Kentucky
 
Seventh Day Adventist 1844 Ellen White Washington, NH
 
Christadelphian (Brethren
of Christ
1844 John Thomas Richmond, VA
 
Salvation Army 1865 William Booth London
 
Holiness 1867 Methodist United States
 
Jehovah's Witnesses 1874 Charles Taze Russell Pennsylvania
 
Christian Science 1879 Mary Baker Eddy Boston
 
Church of God in Christ 1895 Various churches of God Arkansas
 
Church of Nazarene c. 1850-1900 Various religious bodies Pilot Point, TX
 
Pentecstal 1901 Charles F. Parkham Topeka, KS
 
Aglipayan 1902 Gregorio Aglipay Philippines
 
Assemblies of God 1914 Pentecostalism Hot Springs, AZ
 
Iglesia ni Christo 1914 Felix Manalo Philippines
 
Four-square Gospel 1917 Aimee Semple
McPherson
Los Angeles, CA
 
United Church of Christ 1961 Reformed and
Congregationalist
Philadelphia, PA
 
Calvary Chapel 1965 Chuck Smith Costa Mesa, CA
 
United Methodist 1968 Methodist and United
Brethren
Dallas, TX
 
Born-again c. 1970s Various religious bodies United States
 
Harvest Christian 1972 Greg Laurie Riverside, CA
 
Saddleback 1982 Rick Warren California
 
Non-denominational c. 1990s various United States

384 posted on 06/25/2014 7:06:45 AM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

385 posted on 06/25/2014 7:35:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NYer; Elsie; metmom

“How can we know which traditions are apostolic and which are merely human? The answer is the same as how we know which scriptures are apostolic and which are merely human—by listening to the magisterium or teaching authority of Christ’s Church. Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the “canon of Tradition”...”

The most obvious problem with this theory is that non-Catholics REJECT the Roman Catholic Canon. Indeed, the Roman Catholics did not have an authoritative canon until the Council of Trent in the 1500s, which then managed to screw up the list of books, forcing the invention of the word “deuterocanonical” to describe the shortened Apocrypha.

The canon was largely in place by 150-200 AD, long before any council discussed it.

And even today, there has never been a decision by the Roman Catholic Church on the question of the deuterocanon’s value in determining doctrine - Trent left the dispute between Jerome and Augustine in place.

The second major problem is in this sentence:

“If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the “canon of Tradition” by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles.”

Even the Catholic Church admits its teachings include many things which were NOT passed down from the Apostles - IOW, that the Catholic Church is teaching doctrines developed AFTER the Apostles.

As the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster, Henry Edward Manning (1808-1892) put it:

“But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine. How can we know what antiquity was except through the Church?...I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness. . . . The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the Church at this hour.”

http://www.the-highway.com/tradition_Webster.html

There is no secret decoder ring passed down from Pope to Pope. There is no whisper in the ear, passing on secret truths to be revealed a thousand years later. The Roman Catholic Church makes up its tradition as it goes along, often pretending what no scholar would say, that there was unanimity among the “Church Fathers”.

What is the history of the Roman Catholic Church? Which one? The one that asserted papal primacy and broke away from the Orthodox? The one that rejected the clear teaching of God’s Word and started having priests offering a perpetual sacrifice of Jesus, ignoring Christ’s command to “Do this in remembrance of me”? Is it the Roman Catholic Church that believes in Papal Infallibility, a concept not taught for nearly 2000 years?

The Roman Catholic Church is constantly evolving its doctrine, adding new doctrines to meet the desires of its cardinals, rather than adhering to the truth taught by the Apostles. As Paul said, “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.”

So it happened, and those wolves created the Roman Catholic Church.


386 posted on 06/25/2014 8:43:50 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Left wing. Right wing. One buzzard.)
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To: NYer; Mr Rogers; metmom; Elsie

Judaism predates Catholicism by many centuries. Catholicism as we know it did not start in 33 A.D. It was well after the last Apostle expired. To build your denomination up by running others down is a weak argument. Gods Church is not a denomination. It is the group of believers worldwide throughout the ages. Each group you mention has a faction of rabid fanatics whose actions show they have replaced the worship of God with the worship of their denomination. God should be our focus of worship. The only True Compass of Truth is the Bible not a denomination or a group of “wise men” from Rome. Gods real Church started in the Garden of Eden.


387 posted on 06/25/2014 8:53:09 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: NYer

The history of my church is this.....

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1&version=ESV

Start here in chapter 1.


394 posted on 06/25/2014 2:16:15 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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