Five hundred years of "divides" and this is a big deal?
It's nothing but more of the fragmentation inherent to Protestantism.
Posted on 06/18/2014 7:11:18 AM PDT by Gamecock
The evangelical movement is about to divide.
Nothing could be clearer.
It’s true that we have often disagreed over things like church government, views of the Second Coming, baptism, lifestyle habits, worship style and musical preference. But those differences, though deeply felt, were intramural debates over secondary issues.
This time we are going to divide over a primary issue.
It is isn’t just about homosexuality or even about gay marriage, though that is the most obvious factor. When all the cards are out on the table, it will be clear that we have divided over biblical authority. Some of us will say, "We accept the 2000-year-old teaching shared until recently by every branch of the Christian movement that God designed marriage for one man and one woman.” We will also say that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sin. And we will continue to insist that homosexual behavior is always sinful.
Evidently not everyone will agree with us. That includes some folks who graduated from our leading Christian colleges and seminaries.
For a variety of reasons, they will insist that the church has been wrong about this for 2000 years and that we must extend Christian fellowship to openly homosexual men and women. They must be allowed to join the church, sing in the choir, teach Sunday School, and if they are otherwise qualified, they could be chosen as deacons, elders and pastors.
As Al Mohler has recently insisted, there is no middle ground on this issue. We aren’t going to be able to paper over the difference or to "agree to disagree” as if this issue is like disagreeing on the timing of the rapture or whether or not we should sing more hymns.
This is a deal-breaker. Can’t we all just get along? No, we can’t.
The people who argue for full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church are going to go one way, and the rest of us are going to go another. This will mean splitting denominations, leaving churches, and in some cases, it will divide families.
No one can be happy about the very real pain involved. But better that we should separate than stay together and pretend at a unity that does not exist.
A few years ago I would have thought that most evangelicals would stay true to the biblical teaching about marriage. Today I will hedge my bets on that issue. We hear seductive voices calling us to "rethink” our position while other influential leaders admit to "struggling” over this issue. Clearly those voices are having an impact.
But in one sense it doesn’t matter. The people who think it’s okay for two guys or two girls to get married and then come and lead Awana on Wednesday night will never be accepted by the rest of us.
We aren’t buying what they are selling.
Because our culture has shifted on this issue, the price for fidelity to biblical teaching is rising all the time. Christians who openly stand for one man-one woman marriage will face increasing opposition in the days to come. It may be that we will be the ones leaving some churches because we are the minority.
So be it.
The divide is coming and in some senses is already upon us. We all get to decide where we will stand.
You can’t straddle the fence forever. Pastor, you’ll have to take a stand. Church leaders, you’ll have to take a stand. Christian friend, you’ll have to take a stand.
Years ago I heard Don Cole say that "it is better to divide over truth than to unite around error.” He was right, and because of that we will soon be going in different directions.
I voted for Prop 8. Tell me voting matters. If Texas seceded that would change things.
Get off this thread!
FWIW, evangelicals believe in Sola Scriptura.
Yeah right..... try believing John 6:47-59 LITERALLY:
47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Evangelicals have no priests, no lineage from Peter, no traditions, no sacraments, no icons, nothing - they threw it all out - gone forever
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
“FWIW, evangelicals believe in Sola Scriptura. / Yeah right..... try believing John 6:47-59 LITERALLY:”
I said we believe in Sola Scriptura, not that we were too stupid to read a text like an adult. Scripture talks of God gathering us under His wing, but it doesn’t mean God is a Celestial Chicken!
I’ll also point out that passage takes place immediately after the feeding of the 5000, and that Jesus said:
“26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Notice the CONTEXT. Those following for bread, remembering the feeding, were told to seek a different bread. And when Jesus told them to believe, they asked him about manna.
CONTEXT. Sola Scriptura allows for it, as do most adults reading a text.
Exactly. “Reconciliation” means absolute capitulation to the leftist viewpoint regardless of the issue they advocate.
“Sola Scriptura allows for it, as do most adults reading a text”
Your Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture - so anything goes.
Evangelicals with their YOPIOS have no one to blame but themselves - lament away and blame everyone but yourselves.
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
And that foundation would be what? Nothing but the Gospel. That's what Peter declared when he said Christ was the Son of the Living God. That's what the apostles were teaching. I agree they laid the foundation. A house under construction has to start somewhere. Christ is the cornerstone as you noted. The apostles, prophets and other built upon it. And today, you and I can continue to build upon that foundation by sharing the Gospel with those who are lost.
“Your Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture - so anything goes.”
When it is time to stand before God on Judgment Day, saying, “I believed the priest instead of the plain meaning of Your Word” may be what YOU want to say.
“lament away and blame everyone but yourselves.”
I haven’t lamented anything, nor can I think of a reason why I would be tempted to. Those who reject the Word of God by accepting sin “out themselves” as tares, while those who hold true are in the running as wheat. I consider it a good thing.
There were no priests in the New Testament, other than Jewish priests, Jesus as High Priest, and the universal priesthood of believers offering sacrifices of good deeds, thanksgiving, etc. Those who choose to follow priests instead of the Word of God also “out themselves”, and can explain their position to the Great Judge at the end of time.
The fallacy of the “YOPIOS” mantra is that one takes a side when one chooses to believe SEPIOS - Someone Else’s Personal Interpretation of Scripture. To refuse to read is a statement of its own, and it seems to me a poor idea...but do as you wish. Good luck on Judgment Day!
Read the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation 2-3.
In each of them there were Christians who received instructions about what to do. We are definitely in a Pergamum/Thyatira era in our western culture. In the east they are persecuted.
I don't question our legitimacy as churches, Gamey. I just question the quality of our relationship with the Lord.
Just to be honest with you, our mainline protestants are heretical, and our independent protestants are wanting to go that same direction.
We might have our doctrines down to a "t", and we might run walk-a-thons for cancer/malaria/wounded warriors, but when it comes to holiness of life, we OFFICIALLY want the sinful nature to be ascendant.
I'm in favor of looking at churches who OFFICIALLY don't want sinfulness of life. I don't care if they're independent or organized. If they're withstanding the spirit of the age, they are closer to us than those 'evangelical' who call for 'dialogue' with homosexual advocates.
**In the east they are persecuted.**
Here we think we are persecuted because someone looks at us funny, or says something snide about our belief.
The four marks of the Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Which of these describes evangelical Protestantism?
While one or more might apply to individuals certainly it does not describe the current state of the "church" in America.
We don’t know persecution. Some of what’s happening has in it the beginnings of persecution, the Benham brothers, Duck Dynasty, etc., as examples because of their conservative Christian beliefs. Canada has also veered into a command society in its relationships with its Christians. By and large these are based on this same homosexual dominance in our culture.
Marlowe looks at homosexuality as the mark of a beast. Interesting take on it. I’ve even heard it argued by their side that this or that animal species has male mounting male. Getting our morality from beasts.
Speaking of which, we had a black bear sighting about 200 yards up the road in our Southern Ohio very rural setting. No big deal in many places in the USA, but been quite a while here in Southern Ohio. Maybe we can invite him to church and learn some new theology. Lol.
I now see you were perhaps using "built" as an intransitive verb, implying the apostles and prophets built upon the cornerstone of the foundation, but that doesn't fit the text either. The scripture says the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; they actually are the foundation.
Protestants need to:
1) Actually understand the Bible, not just gloss certain verses out of context.
2) Study actual real history, not the rantings of certain anti-Catholic bigots.
3) Realize that the Catholic Church offers the single best hope for salvation.
Well, not intransitive since you wrote “upon it” which I glossed over when I thought you mean “they were built” on the chief cornerstone. Nevertheless, the point stands. The apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone, are the foundation according to the Scriptures.
Oops, meant this for you:
Well, not intransitive since you wrote “upon it” which I glossed over when I thought you mean “they were built” on the chief cornerstone. Nevertheless, the point stands. The apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone, are the foundation according to the Scriptures.
Note that chapter 2 is talking primarily to the Gentiles after verse 11.
Prior to that it is talking about our faith in Christ...especially 2:8-9 "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and not that of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In v 19 Paul continues the message that the Gentiles are now fellow citizens and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone....
the apostles and prophets, mostly Jewish if I remember, received the message first as noted in verse 11, then it was given to the Gentiles as noted in verse 13. It was given through the blood of Christ. The faith in Christ Paul was writing about in v1-10.
In other words, faith in Christ is the foundation. It is the rock upon which Christianity is built. Nothing else could be the foundation.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11 notes this also. Verse 11 says "for no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Hey everybody look one note Johnny is back!
Five hundred years of "divides" and this is a big deal?
It's nothing but more of the fragmentation inherent to Protestantism.
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