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To: FourtySeven
I would hope that question of Petrosius' will be addressed in a later post of yours.

yes ... I will have to answer that later when I have more time.

Concerning the Peter passage, the simple fact that you mention "allusion" means that the passage is not as straightforward as you imagine.

If Peter is saying baptism is required for salvation, how can you possibly harmonize the Romans 10 passage (and an absolutely huge array of other passages) that do not mention baptism at all?

This is exactly what I mean about using a difficult passage to support doctrine when there are many more passages that are straightforward. If one passage does not support another, you have one of the interpretations wrong. There can be no contradications in scripture.

Peter cannot say one thing and Paul another ...

61 posted on 06/10/2014 11:15:20 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser; Petronius
Peter cannot say one thing and Paul another ...

On that we agree.

If Peter is saying baptism is required for salvation, how can you possibly harmonize the Romans 10 passage (and an absolutely huge array of other passages) that do not mention baptism at all?

In brief, because the mere absence of something in Scripture doesn't necessarily imply it isn't required and/or found elsewhere in Scripture. In other words I'm not saying (and I don't think the Church does either) that one Scriptural verse or passage contains all that is required for salvation.

Salvation is a life time process. It seems to me many Protestants/non-Catholic Christians want to make it into a one time event but it's not. Hence, there isn't going to be one Scripture passage that contains all that is required for salvation.

No, Baptism is required, belief and acceptance of Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is required, and repentence of sin is required. All are required for salvation but you won't find all those teachings wrapped up in one single verse or passage. They are taught in different areas, granted, but not one passage.

I do not wish to debate this with you though, so if you have any final thoughts you'd like to share along these lines (what is required for salvation) feel free to share. I'm far more interested in how you are going to answer Petronius' question: Where do you find in Scripture that the Scriptures are sufficient for salvation?

Because while you will find the requirements I listed above in Scripture, you won't find answers to such questions like "are we eternally secure or can our salvation be lost?"

At least this is my contention (and I'd wager Petronius' as well although he can correct me if I'm mistaken).

So I look forward to your reply.

62 posted on 06/10/2014 11:47:15 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: dartuser
Concerning the Peter passage, the simple fact that you mention "allusion" means that the passage is not as straightforward as you imagine.

The allusion is that the flood of Noah prefigured Baptism. What is not an allusion is the simple statement: "… baptism, which saves you now." It is only because you are coming to Scripture with the preconceived notion that Baptism is not necessary for salvation that you must find ways to negate these passages. Thus this is just one example of Protestants putting the teaching of the Reformers above the plain words of the Bible.

If Peter is saying baptism is required for salvation, how can you possibly harmonize the Romans 10 passage (and an absolutely huge array of other passages) that do not mention baptism at all?

Quite simply, if you have faith then you believe all that Jesus taught and commanded, including the necessity of Baptism.

85 posted on 06/10/2014 7:10:41 PM PDT by Petrosius
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