Posted on 06/08/2014 8:26:19 PM PDT by Phinneous
Jews defending Judaism with the best defense...
Jonathan Cahn is a Messianic Jew.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Yeah, I get that a lot. Funny how Christians are 'free' to do anything at all, except keep Torah.
I said all (real) Jews are equally Jewish, from Moses to Harvey Finkelstein. There is a binary, equal, G-dly soul.
Re letters vs John’s vision? It is a classic agree to disagree— I don’t believe in any NT prophecy. The opening argument to the video class was that “Let’s assume Acts is authentic...” Someone in the thread earlier counted the witnesses to the resurrection. Big deal (to the Jew....) Didn’t Elisha already resurrect a child? There is no innovation in resurrection. There is also no innovation in trying to trick Jews I guess.
I don’t want to put words in Rabbi Skobac’s mouth, but Jews believe all Christianity, “New” anything, is heresy (for Jews. Christians should live moral lives based on the 7 Noahide laws of course.) It’s a great deal actually. No ‘pesky’ commandments to follow but 7. (Pesky in quotes because they are gold for Jews. Diamonds. Life itself.)
One more job description of a kabbalist, by the way, is to take the Hebrew word for anything in creation, and connect it back to its source in the 10 utterances of creation (the 9 “let there be’s” and the 1 “In the beginning.”) “Connect it” is part of the class on The Gates of Unity and Faith that I linked to earlier. Some kabbalists just theoretically ‘connect’ objects/concepts of our world to their G-dly root. Others actually create reality. Want more fodder (for Greetings_Puny_Humans-types?)
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2293219/jewish/Is-the-Lab-Created-Burger-Kosher.htm
(Stories of Kabbalists creating beef vis-a-vis modern questions of test-tube-grown meat.....)
You mean a jew who remains a Jew but believes Jesus Christ is the Messiah?
Not sure I understand your post.
I obviously have fundamental theological differences with you, and you with me.
It does little good to discuss the differences, is contrary to our shared social and political values, and harms our joint efforts.
What you believe is the extra-Biblical mystical notions of certain Jews, the Kabbalists, but not certain other Jews, namely John, the apostles, and the early church. Kinda selective in which Jews you choose to believe it appears to me.
Christianity is a prophetic religion, so, yes, you are right in putting such emphasis on it. Jews like John saw Christ everywhere in the prophetic scriptures; chief reason being they had their understanding opened “that they might understand the scriptures,” Christ’s death and resurrection revealed to them in the prophets, Luke 24:45-47.
Your understanding could be opened also, if you would only choose the right Jews to open your understanding. John and the apostles had their understanding opened, none of these Jews in whom you trust for interpreting prophecy have had their understanding opened. They follow visions of their own heart, which the NT calls "the flesh." Its of man, not God.
Oh sure, Jewish Christians are free to live an Old Testament-guided ritual worship life. But often the Rabbinical take on this is overly literalistic and rigid and I believe I see how it can carry over blindly into Judaistic Christian worship groups today.
There’s no need to bind the Baby in swaddling clothes.
When God is the king of one’s life, it does make sense to discuss our best understanding of God. There is no cheapening things down to a worldly least common denominator.
I believe Christian doctrine is wide enough to embrace explanations of why Jews are yet blessed by God. It’s worldly Christians who will curse Jews.
Yah'shua was/is/and will always be a Jew. Yes.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
This is a title that the Old Testament God took upon Himself long before Jesus/Yeshua of Nazareth was born. Readers of the Greek manuscripts using the "Jesus" name can miss this. Perfectly logical connection if He is God. But crazy! Lovers do crazy things.
Paul evangelized the Gentiles and that's where I came in somewhere. But I've been wondering like that rabbi said what happened to the Jewish Christians?
“When God is the king of one’s life, it does make sense to discuss our best understanding of God.”
Sometimes. This is a political site, but also Christian site, run by a Christian.
Posting links to theologian who (regardless if rightly or wrongly from a person’s theological perspective) denigrates Christianity is rude to the owner of this site.
I don’t go to my liberal sister’s house and call her a dumbass, for example.
I think part of this was good ole Calvinist predestination... God has been laying out a drama on the face of this earth. He arranged for certain Jews and certain Gentiles to populate the earth at certain times so that it would come out this way, without violating their free wills... a gold rush of Gentiles and a trickle down to near nothing of Jews (except those who adopted a Gentile style Christianity).
The complexion of the picture will change in the future if common takes on the book of Revelation (and other prophetic books) are correct. Once more Jews will come to the fore and Christianity will regain an explicit Jewish character.
In the meantime, certainly the Jewish Paul says for the Gentile Christians of the churches he wrote to, not to sweat it! Remain in whatever state you were in (circumcised, not) when you came to the Lord. Deal with the issues on a case by case basis.
As I said earlier, I see a time coming when Gentiles will want to be Jewish... but this will be Christian Jewish. I could see, for example, Muslims getting won over this way, something we’d scoff at today.
Oh... I guess I get the point.
Most of us are grownups by now. I think Phinneous is more polite than many about articulating why rabbinical Judaism believes it has the correct take on God.
Quite often the two faith systems just talk past one another. The historical nexuses of both are simply glossed over like they had never happened! This is unfair to the question of what’s true and what isn’t. You don’t cast out half your experimental results arbitrarily if you want good science.
Frankly if Jim Rob is a fundie (I think he is) then he’s versed with this kind of issue.
If I had a bone to pick, it would be with folks who say that Christian society was “nothing but bad news” for the Jewish people.
I’d think to be fair we need to cast the question against the experience of Jews in other foreign societies. Not even the Inquisition, which was a distinct nadir in Christian-Jewish relationship (if you were outspokenly Jewish and wanted high office they’d give you cruel grief because you weren’t Catholic) duplicated the near disaster that Jews came to in Persia until rescued through the miracle which is commemorated by Purim. And often Jews weren’t nearly as lucky at the hands of pagans. There’s a reason that stragglers, not throngs, came back to the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
It's hard enough to be a Gentile Christian anyway.
In one sense it’s hard, and in another sense it’s easy.
The Lord Himself can be, and needs to be trusted to guide you. “Worrying over salvation” is one of the cruelest oxymorons and it’s unbiblical on its face... no less than Jesus says to hush your worries! I don’t care how much parsing Calvinists and Arminians do, the gospel of good news is not, “GOOD LUCK.”
What would have been the reaction, not only among the Chassidim, but among Jews throughout the four corners of the earth, had God miraculously raised the Rebbe from the dead ? ?Excepting he himself said otherwise, He would have been proclaimed Moshiach.
Now I know you do not believe Yeshua is the Moshiach. There is no way on earth you could ever believe that unless God revealed it to you. All the proof texts in the Tanach will not convince you since you see them otherwise. Only God could convince you otherwise. Isaiah 52/53 is something you see as Israel the suffering servant. In the First Century many Jews believed Yeshua was Moshiach. Because of their eyewitness accounts, handed down both orally and in writings, many more Gentiles came to believe the same core starting point. It all comes down to some eyewitness account. You could not believe that HaShem gave the Torah through Moshe unless HaShem gave you that faith; you would fade away like the majority of Jews; they don't believe it. They may practice a form of Judaism, or may not at all, but it is not Torah. Homosexual marriage, in reform, conservative, or whatever shuls ? You know that is not Torah. It is your job, your mission to reach those Jewish souls and turn them back to Torah. Christians really can't affect that unless God chooses some Jew to reveal himself. I know you don't believe it, yet look how few Jews really become Christian/Messianic and last. Many return to Judaism because the myriad of Christian denominations, sects, and cults is so confusing and irrational.
I respect the Chabadikim. They lay down their lives for Jews. They love the LORD as they understand him. No, they are not perfect, none of us are, yet they seem to me to be the best of traditional Judaism. If God wanted a quarter million missionaries in this world in a miraculous fashion, he could use the Chabadikim as his Jewels. Now that would be some miracle nobody saw coming; probably just my fantasy but with God nothing is impossible.
See Num 13:16shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachHosea ===> salvation
From יָשַׁע (H3467)Yah'shua ==> Joshua ==> YHvH is/be my salvation
From יְהֹוָה (H3068) and יָשַׁע (H3467)
He identifies them at the end,
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
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