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To: boatbums
The Catholic church was NOT holy nor apostolic for a long time.

Ah, so you hold the theory that the gates of hell prevailed against the holy catholic apostolic church that was founded, as Jesus said, on the apostles, prophets, with Jesus himself the chief cornerstone. Exactly how many years was that ? And if Luther is not your apostle or prophet, who exactly was the apostle or prophet who re-formed the church in question (surely not Joseph Smith) ?

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

318 posted on 06/09/2014 3:59:00 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981
And if Luther is not your apostle or prophet, who exactly was the apostle or prophet who re-formed the church in question (surely not Joseph Smith) ?

Who was the pope that conjured up the COUNTER Reformation?

343 posted on 06/09/2014 6:19:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: af_vet_1981
The Catholic church was NOT holy nor apostolic for a long time.

Ah, so you hold the theory that the gates of hell prevailed against the holy catholic apostolic church that was founded, as Jesus said, on the apostles, prophets, with Jesus himself the chief cornerstone. Exactly how many years was that ? And if Luther is not your apostle or prophet, who exactly was the apostle or prophet who re-formed the church in question (surely not Joseph Smith) ?

I believe the TRUTH that the "gates of hell" have not, nor will they ever, prevail against those who are members of Christ's body. Gates, BTW, don't DO anything but keep out or keep in something. These gates cannot come and drag someone out of Christ's body and they cannot prevent one who they are keeping in from being taken out to believe the Gospel and become part of Christ's body. The Catholic church, on the other hand, is not that body of Christ - it can't be because not everyone within it is saved, whereas, those who are IN Christ ARE saved and will never be cast away back into hell.

Catholic theology has misapplied Jesus' words to claim they are THE church that the gates of hell cannot prevail against even though history has shown time and again that they HAVE done wrong, taught error, been led by depraved men and entertained hell within the very walls of the Vatican. Once you understand Jesus' point, you will see this is the right way to apply that passage. There was no need to "re-form" the true church because the true church (God's spiritual building) is going to ALWAYS be the buttress and support of the truth - no matter what organizational names they may use. The truth will NEVER be lost, forgotten or revised.

407 posted on 06/09/2014 3:52:32 PM PDT by boatbums (Proud member of the Free Republic Bible Thumpers Brigade.)
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