500 Years of Chaos: Protestantism’s Anniversary

Catholic Analysis ^ | 7 June 2014 | Philipp Rogall

[ealgeone]

and to assign a title to Mary not used in the Bible is wrong as well. Mary is the mother of Emmanuel, which the Holy Spirit through the Apostles interprets as God with us. It is right there in the Bible. She is the mother of God with us. If, at least, you believe Sola Scriptural, believe it or stop troubling those who do believe the Scriptures

then i guess you're not going with that whole Mary is sinless or that she remained a virgin thing....if you, as you say, believe the Scriptures....which btw, I do.

I just don't twist them to find something that's not in there.

[af_vet_1981]

then i guess you're not going with that whole Mary is sinless or that she remained a virgin thing....if you, as you say, believe the Scriptures....which btw, I do. I just don't twist them to find something that's not in there.

With one hand you write that you don't believe Mary is the mother of God with us and with the other that you do.

[ealgeone]

then i guess you're not going with that whole Mary is sinless or that she remained a virgin thing....if you, as you say, believe the Scriptures....which btw, I do. I just don't twist them to find something that's not in there. With one hand you write that you don't believe Mary is the mother of God with us and with the other that you do.

I've already stated what the Bible says.

I'm asking you if you believe the Bible or the RCC view that Mary was sinless or that she remained a virgin.

You might even believe the Holy Spirit was the "father of God" if Mary was the "mother of God"....which are non-Biblica. You never see the title "mother of God" used to describe Mary.

See what happens when you start twisting the Scripture to get the meaning you want? You get non-Biblical real quick.

[ealgeone]

With one hand you write that you don't believe Mary is the mother of God with us and with the other that you do.

now you've changed the title from mother of God, to mother of God with us.

God is with us in His Son. His Son holds the attributes of God, but, is at the same time, the second member of the Trinity. Hence a different person from God in this perspective and capacity, yet He and the Father are One. Jesus, the Son, was given to us as a sacrifice.....not God the Father.

When Jesus was born He was born with all of His Heavenly attributes, yet He was flesh that walked among us. He has undergone and passed all of the temptations we faced yet we failed.

Christ, as the second member of the Trinity and the Son of God, died for us...not the Father, the first member of the Trinity.

The Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity, impregnated Mary. Yet the Holy Spirit is not the "father of Jesus"...or God is with us. God the Father is Christ's Father. And now the Holy Spirit is our Helper and intercedes for us all the time.

Each member of the Trinity is separate yet one. It's a hard concept to understand.

If you keep the Biblical attributes of the Trinity it makes things easier to understand.

[WilliamIII]

yes, you have corruption in many institutions. nothing is perfect in this world. that’s why competition and consumer choice are so important, not one-size-fits-all, top-down bureaucracies that everybody has to belong to/subscribe to.

[Elsie]

Way to avoid answering the question, such courage.

WHAT 'question'?

That must be why there is a shrine to Mary everywhere in Italy and Mexico.

[Elsie]

This just in!

Two angels fell today on the Dancing with the Angels program.

Their wings should be healed in time for the next program.

[roamer_1]

Look up pedant.

Really?

Well, I THOUGHT one eye was open... Sorry to bother you - go on back to sleep.

[metmom]

Perhaps you ought to take the issue up with the Holy Spirit as HE was the one who called Mary *mother of Jesus* in the Scripture He breathed out.

It takes a lot of chutzpah to tell God that He was wrong in how He inspired Scripture, but that never stopped a Catholic before and I don’t expect it to now.

[af_vet_1981]

now you've changed the title from mother of God, to mother of God with us.

I have simply and truthfully presented the Scriptures that show Mary is the mother of God with us.

[af_vet_1981]

I've already stated what the Bible says.

You have denied the Scripture. You deny Mary is the mother of God with us as the Scripture says. You have no apostolic authority and are espousing something unorthodox and relatively new.

[ealgeone]

I've already stated what the Bible says. You have denied the Scripture. You deny Mary is the mother of God with us as the Scripture says. You have no apostolic authority and are espousing something unorthodox and relatively new.

Using only the Bible to answer these questions since you say I am denying the Bible:

Was Mary sinless?

Did she remain a virgin?

Was she taken up into Heaven?

Are we to make icons of Mary and put them in our homes and "venerate" them?

Is anyone saved through Mary?

Are we to pray to Mary in any fashion?

Are we to rely upon Mary for anything regarding our salvation?

Using your parameter of the Scripture, none of these positions are found in the Scriptures.

So if catholic teaching on these these aspects of Mary cannot be found in Scripture, why should I believe what the RCC says about Mary being the "mother of God" when that title is never used to describe Mary?

It is a false attempt by the RCC to elevate Mary to a position not given to her in the Bible.

[af_vet_1981]

So if catholic teaching on these these aspects of Mary cannot be found in Scripture, why should I believe what the RCC says about Mary being the "mother of God" when that title is never used to describe Mary?

And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[ealgeone]

Can't answer the questions using your own criteria. You prove my point. This will be my last comment on this thread.

Enjoyed the conversation.

[Cronos]

called Mary "mother of Jesus" and Jesus = God. Hence Mary is the mother of Jesus, the mother of God.

Just as you are not the creator of your kids but bore them, so too is Mary the bearer of her child, Jesus Christ, our Lord, GOD and master and her creator

[Cronos]

Our mother's bear us, they don't create us. Mary bore her creator, she did not precede his divine nature or create Him.

Your soul exists before birth, it is not created by your mother. Mary bore and gave birth to the 100% man and 100% God Jesus Christ. The human and divine natures are utterly intertwined. She did not give birth to just a physcial husk that was later filled/possessed by the Word. She did not bear the Father or the Spirit, but bore the Son, the 100% man and 100% God part of the Triune godhead

[Cronos]

"bases EVERY message..." -- well in that case which does it hold to?

What is it's stand on:

1. something as basic as Jesus was always God (Trinitarian position) or that Jesus Christ was man made God (Oneness PENTECOSTAL Protestant position) or the Angel Michael (Seventh Day Adventist Ellen G White teaching) -- all three use scripture alone to justify their points of view and have three diverge in their points of view
2. he REAL Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Lutheran, some Anglicans, maybe even Methodists), or is it just a symbol (as your post said)?
3. talking in tongues -- does one HAVE to talk in tongues (Oneness Pentecostal) to display faith or not?
4. and the episcopate (bishops etc.) -- some who have scripture alone have it, some don't
5. Do you read in scripture alone whether Baptism is for infants and sufficient (Presbyterian etc.) or not (Baptists)?
6. God pre-damns people to hell (Calvinism) or not (others)
7. Jesus came only for the salvation of a few (Calvinists) or he was Savior of the world (everyone else)?
8. agree or disagree with soul sleep?
9. worshipping on a Sunday (Presbyterians, Pentecostals etc.) or not (Seventh Day Adventists)
10. agree with the Adventists that one should follow kosher laws or not?
11. and spiritual gifts like prophecy amongst us (Pentecostals) or not (Presbyterians)
12. "slain in the spirit" (Pentecostalism) or not (Presbyterianism, Lutheranism etc)
13. Regeneration comes through Baptism (Lutheranism) or not (Baptists)
14. do you read that grace can be resisted (Pentecostalism, Lutheranism, Methodism) or not (Calvinism)
15. is baptism is three-fold (Mennonites) or not?
16. imputed righteousness (Calvinism) or not (Mennonites)

[Cronos]

Not really. a mother bears a baby, does not create is, is not the origin of it. Mary bore Jesus Christ, the 100% God and 100% man part of the Triune Godhead. He was her creator.

What would you call her? Mother of Jesus? That statement is implicitly saying that either Jesus is not God or that the two natures are separate and were separate at the point of birth at the very least

[Cronos]

well, I dislike the entire tone of this article -- the very idea of clubbing together various non-Catholic groups is illogical

I believe that the movements around the 15th century were a mix of religious but also a lot of economic and political reasons

[af_vet_1981]

Can't answer the questions using your own criteria. You prove my point. This will be my last comment on this thread. Enjoyed the conversation.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;