Posted on 05/31/2014 12:06:01 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
Will the United Methodist Church soon have to drop the “United” part of its name?
A group of 80 pastors, including at least two from North Carolina, says the nation’s second-largest Protestant denomination faces a split because of an inability to resolve long-standing theological disputes about homosexuality and church doctrine.
But more than lamenting the divisions, the pastors indicated there is little reason to think reconciliation – or even coexistence – could be found. Like a couple heading to divorce court, the pastors cited irreconcilable differences that can’t be mended.
(Excerpt) Read more at charlotteobserver.com ...
Looking it over again, I’m sorry if that comes off as harsh. But I have to ask some questions about the, uh, dynamics of these church-related disasters... like, why do people “queer” churches, how do they gain a foothold and when is there no turning back... I won’t go on about those things, but IMO a disaster like this usually exposes some aberrant organizational philosophy that was buried deeply in a sect’s belief structures all along; for example some churches have a belief that I myself do not share, in the feasibility of really being a church together when one is pre-committed to a certain subjectivism about religious matters.
The fact that the minister was female would be enough of a reason not to attend IMHO.
Remember, the PCUSA had to rewrite part of their pew Bibles to fit their changes.
The UMC condemns the use of bottled water.
Seriously.
One of my former Sunday School students is involved in the rewriting of the rules about homosexuality in the UMC. He’s a really good kid and plans to become a minister.
But it isn’t a good thing. He’s a lib. He had a lot of problems with my lessons but liked me. I saw him today as a matter of fact.
avenir:
There is a hint of truth what you say, but there is a difference. There are lots of individual Catholics who don’t know dude dilly squat about their Faith, that is most certainly true. There are bad bishops, nuns and theologians as well, not going to deny that. But there is one clear standard of the faith, so if is easy to see who is going in the wrong direction and at times, sometimes very slowly, Rome eventually cracks down. For example, several women have been excommunicated formally for mimicking ordination to the priestly ministry, which is tantamount to potentially causing a schism because it can falsely lead Catholics, most likely the not so solid ones, or just good folks who are misguided, to think they can receive the sacraments from a woman who is no more a priest than I as a man can give birth to children.
In the end, the be fully Catholic is to be in communion with a Bishop and Diocese that is in communion with the Church and Bishop of Rome. Once you break that sacramental bond of communion, one is in schism.
Protestantism is no anchor at the Institutional level, the Methodist will probably split and now you have 2 different groups from the former United Methodist.
Great idea! They could title it “Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth” and it could be known by the acronym “BIBLE.”
They also ban hymns that get too theological and talk about such uncomfortable things as “atonement.”
How about the unity found with in the true Body of Christ (not withstanding church membership), of those who have been “born of the spirit (John 3)”?
I don’t know this individual but I don’t see how the terms “really good” can apply to someone who wishes to pervert and subvert Biblical teachings about sexuality, marriage and the natural family.
“Really polite” or “really nice” maybe. But “really good?” No.
Did the PCUSA actually do that? I figured they would’ve just stayed with their NRSV translation.
Those from the former Evangelical Association (the "E" of EUB) felt utterly stripped of their identity...and some continue to smolder resentment.
Kind of hard NOT to ask the obvious. Where were the Protestants when Jesus died? St. Peter was NOT a Protestant, neither was St. Paul. They were sent by Jesus to "go teach all nations." And, of course, they did what their Savior commanded.
In fact, St. Peter was the first VICAR of Christ, appointed by Jesus to "go teach all nations." Peter did go to Rome, at Paul's request, and there Peter died, martyred, crucified UPSIDE down, as he did not feel that he "deserved" to die at his Savior did.
You KNOW, of course, where he was crucified, on VATICAN HILL, an already existing hill in Rome. Inside the Vatican Church, behind the very front-most altar (There are MANY!), in their museum is a smallish box, obviously hermetically sealed now, labeled: HERE LIES PETER. I don't expect that too much is left of the FIRST VICAR of Christ, but his remains are there where he died.
Luther, a 16th century Catholic priest, OBVIOUSLY did not intend on doing what he did, that is, separate Christians from each other. He merely meant to reform The Church. The Church DID reform but those others who "protested" took on that very name and became the Protestant faiths, now all 30,000 of them.
Hard to think of the Protestants as anything but divisive among THEMSELVES: 30,000 different denominations! I sometimes wonder if Dr. Martin Luther, doctor of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, would be proud of what his actions wrought. I don't think so. I believe that he was a GOOD man whose intentions were good. It's my belief that he would have been the first to wish that his Church, the Roman Catholic Church, would have stayed as ONE.
I am NOT a "confused" Catholic. My thinking is straight and clear...well on the important things to me. Since I also attend daily Mass I've gotten, over the decades, to know hundreds of NON-confused Catholics. I'm sure it's the same with you, knowing hundreds of NON-confused Protestants.
Also "Rome," as you call the FIRST Christian church, is not a "'unified' mess." There are some 3.3 billion Christians on this good earth of God's with 1.6 billion Catholics and the rest divided among 30,000 different Protestant denominations.
As for the Catholic Church, founded in 33 A.D.: not BAD for the FIRST church in existence, Catholic that is, Roman or Orthodox [Oh, those Greeks!]. And who knows, the Greek and Roman Catholic Churches may yet unify some day. Language was one of the major causes of the schism, but now, thanks to the Pope, all Masses may be celebrated in the vernacular, even in Greek!
We were all young once.
Go to a PCUSA church and look up 1 Tim 3.
The General Conference meets once every four years (same years as US Presidential elections) and has become increasingly dominated by UM's from Africa who are, unsurprisingly, much more conservative, Biblically grounded, and theologically orthodox than their North American counterparts.
This has put the liberals from North America into a tailspin. They don't want to play the "white supremacy" card like some parts of the Anglican communion, so their only apparent alternative is to leave the UMC.
"Apparent" because there always is the preferred option of repentance.
I too have heard this, but without documentation.
What IS certain is that Fr. Wesley, in his 80's, wrote in this daily journal that he had celebrated the Eucharist every day of Easter (Bright) Week, as had been is longtime custom.
Do they make it even more “gender-neutral” than this one(NRSV)
http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1Timothy+3
3The saying is sure:* whoever aspires to the office of bishop* desires a noble task. 2Now a bishop* must be above reproach, married only once,* temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an apt teacher, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way— 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may be puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be serious, not double-tongued, not indulging in much wine, not greedy for money; 9they must hold fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10And let them first be tested; then, if they prove themselves blameless, let them serve as deacons. 11Women* likewise must be serious, not slanderers, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12Let deacons be married only once,* and let them manage their children and their households well; 13for those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and great boldness in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, 15if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. 16Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He* was revealed in flesh,
vindicated* in spirit,*
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.
======================================
So how do "Spirit-filled believers" know that they are on the right track? Does the Holy Spirit TELL them so?
Do they, the "Spirit-filled believers," NEVER get it even SLIGHTLY wrong? Do they, the "Spirit-filled believers," ALWAYS get it right?
Do you include the "Spirit-filled believers" who are illiterate? Blind? Deaf? Mute? Incarcerated?
Just curious.
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By the way: if some Catholics believe that they are allowed to interpret the Word of God as they wish, then they are NOT Catholics. They are heretics.
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