Posted on 05/28/2014 7:41:25 PM PDT by ReformationFan
Yesterday marked the 450th anniversary of the death of John Calvin. Here are nine things you should know about the French theologian and Reformer.
1. From an early age, Calvin was a precocious student who excelled at Latin and philosophy. He was prepared to go to study of theology in Paris, when his father decided he should become a lawyer. Calvin spend half a decade at the University of Orleans studying law, a subject he did not love.
2. Calvin wrote his magnum opus, The Institutes of the Christian Religion, at the age of 27 (though he updated the work and published new editions throughout his life). The work was intended as an elementary manual for those who wanted to know something about the evangelical faith"the whole sum of godliness and whatever it is necessary to know about saving doctrine."
3. Calvin initially had no interest in being a pastor. While headed to Strasbourg he made a detour in Geneva where he met the local church leader William Farel. Calvin said he was only staying one night, but Farel argued that it was God's will he remain in the city and become a pastor. When Calvin protested that he was a scholar, not a preacher, Farel swore a great oath that God would curse all Calvin's studies unless he stayed in Geneva. Calvin later said, ""I felt as if God from heaven had laid his mighty hand upon me to stop me in my courseand I was so terror stricken that I did not continue my journey."
4. Calvin was a stepfather (he married a widow, Idelette, who had two children) but had no surviving children himself. His only son, Jacques, was born prematurely and survived only briefly. When his wife died he wrote to his friend, Viret:
I have been bereaved of the best friend of my life, of one who, if it has been so ordained, would willingly have shared not only my poverty but also my death. During her life she was the faithful helper of my ministry. From her I never experienced the slightest hindrance.
5. During his ministry in Geneva, Calvin preached over two thousand sermons. He preached twice on Sunday and almost every weekday. His sermons lasted more than an hour and he did not use notes.
6. Around 1553, Calvin began an epistolary relationship with Michael Servetus, a Spanish theologian and physician. Servetus wrote several works with anti-trinitarian views so Calvin sent him a copy of his Institutes as a reply. Servetus promptly returned it, thoroughly annotated with critical observations. Calvin wrote to Servetus, "I neither hate you nor despise you; nor do I wish to persecute you; but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrine with so great audacity." In time their correspondence grew more heated until Calvin ended it.
7. In the 1500s, denying the Trinity was a blasphemy that was considered worthy of death throughout Europe. Because he had written books denying the Trinity and denouncing paedobaptism, Servetus was condemned to death by the French Catholic Inquisition. Servetus escaped from prison in Vienne and fled to Italy, but stopped on the way in Geneva. After he attended a sermon by Calvin, Servetus was arrested by the city authorities. French Inquisitors asked that he be extradited to them for execution, but the officials in Geneva refused and brought him before their own heresy trial. Although Calvin believed Servetus deserving of death on account of what he termed as his "execrable blasphemies", he wanted the Spaniard to be executed by decapitation as a traitor rather than by fire as a heretic. The Geneva council refused his request and burned Servetus at the stake with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg.
8. Within Geneva, Calvin's main concern was the creation of a collège, an institute for the education of children. Although the school was a single institution, it was divided into two parts: a grammar school called the collège and an advanced school called the académie. Within five years there were 1,200 students in the grammar school and 300 in the advanced school. The collège eventually became the Collège Calvin, one of the college preparatory schools of Geneva, while the académie became the University of Geneva.
9. Calvin worked himself nearly to death. As Christian History notes, when he could not walk the couple of hundred yards to church, he was carried in a chair to preach. When the doctor forbade him to go out in the winter air to the lecture room, he crowded the audience into his bedroom and gave lectures there. To those who would urge him to rest, he asked, "What? Would you have the Lord find me idle when he comes?"
But they are still condemned and
tormented forever, no?
God hasn’t revealed every detail about *anything* to us. The Scriptures give us essential info: who God is, the necessity of obeying Him, a very brief history of Jesus’ time on earth, & sufficient theology to keep us on the right track, providing we receive it in the way that God intended.
Left out of what we know is an infinite amount. We are finite beings. Our minds are exceedingly limited. God is infinite, & omniscient. The world wouldn’t hold a fraction of the books that could be filled with His wisdom, & we’d get lost trying to read even a few of them. From Isaiah 55:
8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
I used to think we could out-mercy God. That’s because His mercy must be tempered by justice & righteousness, while we, being infinitely less just & righteous than He is, could focus on mercy alone, or nearly alone.
I was wrong. We cannot out-mercy God. This is because His single most definitive trait is love, agape. From 1 John 4:
“8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.”
God is many things, but nowhere else in the Bible will you find Him defined by any other single trait in this grammatical construction. Iow, John is revealing to us God’s most defining essence.
It is this trait of God’s that most highlights the tragedy of Calvin’s error. He imagined that a God whose essence is love could create sentient beings—humans in His own image, who could feel agony & despair—for the sole purpose of ‘eternally punishing’ them. No greater contradiction to God’s nature could be postulated. God is no Sadistic ghoul. He created mankind, & from the beginning He revealed Himself to us & called us to obedience. Using the gift of free will with which He has endowed us, some respond in faith while others reject him.
Consider this image. From Isaiah 65:
1 I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me;
I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me.
I said, Here am I, here am I,
To a nation which did not call on My name.
2 I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people,
Who walk in the way which is not good, following their own thoughts,”
This is one of the most poignant passages in the Bible. It depicts a God who, despite our rebellion, spreads out His hands toward us all day long. We don’t seek Him, but He importunes us to come to Him. How amazing.
Yet this passage makes no sense to a Calvinist. Why would God spread out His hands ‘all day long’ to anyone? If grace is irresistible, the people will come without this beseeching gesture. If the people are too depraved to come, then God is both wasting His time & mocking them, by importuning them to do what He has created them incapable of doing.
But back to your question. Jimmyray, we do not know all the details. We’ve been given a very limited amount of info. Two things we know. (1) God actively seeks each soul, & places us in the best possible circumstances to come to Him. From Acts 17:
26 “and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, For we also are His children.”
From this we see that God placed each & every individual into optimal circumstances to seek Him.
The second thing we know is that those who rebel against God without specific knowledge of His commandments will be punished much more lightly than those who have full knowledge & yet rebel. I won’t quote the passage again, but it is Biblical, & it is from the mouth of Jesus Himself.
Now if you think Calvinistically, that a one-size-fits-all ‘eternal punishment’ is in store for all the non-elect, you can’t fit the concept of ‘degrees of punishment’ into the picture. It doesn’t make sense. But if, on the other hand, you take God at His word, then you see that even in judgment He is merciful. A light punishment awaits those who sinned outside of a specific knowledge of God’s commandments.
More details than that we do not have. All we can do is thank God for his love & mercy, & leave the rest to Him.
Next stop, purgatory...
Jimmy, there ARE multiple judgments.
There is the bema seat of Christ for Christians: 2 Co 5:10
There is the judgment of tribulation survivors after Jesus returns: Matthew 25 (When the Son of Man comes) Jews (14-30) and the nations (Gentiles) 31-46:
There is the Great White Throne final judgment of the dead Rev 20: 11-15,
No purgatory. From Hebrews 9:
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
The woman is the Virgin of Israel, Miriam, whom you call Mary. She gave birth to JESUS, who is God with us, the Holy One of Israel.
What other could be said to have given birth to Jesus?
There is no other, and thankfully we have the Gospels so we know.
Sure, just like the Yankees and Red Sox, they are of no account.
There is another.
Israel finally brought forth its Messiah.
And it’s Israel that will go into tribulation.
Miriam is Israel, the very Israel of God, and there is no valid interpretation of Revelation 12 that excludes her. She, at God' will and by the Holy Spirit, brought the Messiah to this world and she was with him at his death and resurrection. She was with the Apostles at the foundation of the Church. Did you think God used that figure in Revelation 12 by accident ?
Mary does not fit the details of the verses in Rev 12. She is not on earth, the location of the pursuit. The woman is.
Only the LORD or an Apostle can correctly interpret Revelation for us. My view is there is only one mother of the Messiah, Miriam, who is also Israel, who is also the Church. That unity will never be broken. No one can separate her from Messiah, from Israel, or from the holy catholic apostolic church (not that they won't try).
It is fine that you follow the interpretation of your church, af vet. I have no problem with that.
For me, however, reading the scripture, there is nothing in Revelation 12 that demands that passage be about Mary, except for the “gave birth to” section, and there is a lot remaining that says that it is not Mary.
However, I do appreciate your explanation.
How do you reconcile your interpretation of that passage with:
Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless;
I would assert, that if you think Biblically, you would see that, even if there are degrees of punishment, as you assert (which I don not contest, incidentally), the destination of all who are unbelievers is the same. They will all be cast into the lake of fire.
John 3: 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Matt 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
What do you think God is telling us/you via the following vss:
“and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, For we also are His children.”
“I would assert, that if you think Biblically, you would see that, even if there are degrees of punishment, as you assert (which I don not contest, incidentally), the destination of all who are unbelievers is the same. They will all be cast into the lake of fire.
John 3: 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Matt 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
I have already addressed this issue multiple times. If you didn’t grasp what I was saying the first time, you need to reread my prior comments. If you grasped it but just want to keep arguing for argument’s sake, I’m not your person. The Bible specifically admonishes against argumentativeness of that type. We’re not to engage in it. As I said, if you were asking me these things for the first time, I would answer [as I in fact have done]. But repeating everything a third & fourth time serves no purpose.
Not arguing for the joy of it, but rather to correct your erroneous assertions. Without Jesus, the lost are cast into the Lake of Fire, never to escape. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by arguing a limited punishment, but it seems to be that you think they will escape the eternal nature of it, and will only be persecuted for a season. If that is the case, you are in error. If you think they will only be limited in the severity of their eternal punishment, ok, but in the lake of fire they remain.
That in spite of God setting up mankind all conditions that would enable them to seek him, Romans 3:11 confirms that "...there is no one who seeks God".
As Jesus said in John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them..."
I don't believe the scriptures are in error, or contradict, for there are many people who "seek" after a god of their own vain imaginings. We are told to "seek Him while he may be found" and "seek him earnestly", but these directives were to Israel in the first covenant times, or directed to Christians.
I am firmly convinced, based on the scriptures I posted previously in post 53 of this thread, that if God did not reveal himself to individuals, and direct the way to Himself through the sacrificial death of Jesus, NO ONE would worship Him in an acceptable way, or be saved, for that matter.
I have been a combination of extremely busy & away from my computer. I will plan, Lord willing, to reply to your comments either this evening or tomorrow.
‘Not sure what you hope to accomplish by arguing a limited punishment, but it seems to be that you think they will escape the eternal nature of it, and will only be persecuted for a season.’
This is a complete & total misstatement of what I have said so far. How could you even passingly have read my comments & derived such a misguided idea about them? I really urge you to go back & read what I’ve written on this topic a second time, a third if necessary. Id at any point you feel you have grasped what I’m saying, please feel free to paraphrase it. I will tell you if you got it right or not. As for what you posted above, it represents a one-hundred percent misunderstanding of my comments.
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