Posted on 05/15/2014 8:58:50 PM PDT by Salvation
First, I have to say I love my Roman br'ers and sisters - meaning all Romans who have entrusted themselves to the saving work of Christ and not to their works, which can never save. There are many, despite the fraudulent doctrines that obscure the Gospel of Grace.
Having written that, I want to point out that Romans are no different than all other humans. We all prefer a sanitized, clean story that leaves little room for doubt or shading.
Despite the falseness of these doctrines, they appeal to the human/Roman need for a clean story:
Peter was the first pope
There is an unbroken line of popes
Mary is everyone's mother now
Religious rituals are necessary for salvation
Rome is the ultimate authority
Rome is the Church in the NT
We can and should pray to departed saints
Etc.
Unfortunately, it is the rare Roman who looks under the hood and discovers that these are all false, many of which have pagan origins. It is cleaner to retell a simple story in a sanitized form. Unfortunately, that story is false and does not lead to salvation.
Hypocritical in what way?
You dispute something because the specific phrase or word is not in the Bible. I pointed out that the word Trinity is not in the Bible and millions of Christians accept it as Truth.
The concept of the Trinity is present in Scripture without the actual word being used.
Sola Scriptura on the other hand is not.
Obviously there is disagreement in the interpretation or understanding of the concept of SS.
I might point out that the same is true for the concept of the Trinity. There are some who profess Christianity and reject that God is Three in One.
The corporal works of mercy are spelled out in Scripture though the specific phrase is not.
I can see what you are saying here and can somewhat agree that brethren would be/is those who belong to Christ.
I can also see that there may be those who do these things without doing them as one of the brethren.
But, I believe that Christ teaches us how to believe and how to love and this passage is meant to explain that it is not the external works of the law, but acts of mercy/kindness/compassion and selflessness that bear witness to our love for Christ and for our neighbor.
Remember in the story of the good Samaritan, the neighbor was not who His listeners expected but one who others would not have expected to give help. We do not always know who are brethren/neighbors. Love can come to us from unexpected people and we should love those who do not expect it from us.
My grandmother used to tell me that if I was merely half as smart as I thought I was, I would be a genius.
Any apologies (I need none) should be directed to any lurkers who are waiting for some kind of evidence of what you've typed here.
Sola Scriptura on the other hand is not.
You; too; can continue saying this; and I'll just go on posting the following...
*****They were unaware that they were even doing works that pleased God.*****
What they were unaware of was that the things they had done for the least of Christ’s brethren were done for Christ because He lives within them. That is what Jesus is telling them. Just as Jesus accused Saul of persecuting Him when Saul was persecuting the Christians. It is why John says that one cannot love God and hate his neighbor.
In Matthew 25, Jesus is not speaking of pleasing God, but of what we do with the blessings that we have been given.
And is it wrong to want to please God?
Ephesians 5:10 10 Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord.
Colossians 1:9-10
And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.
To do God’s will is pleasing to Him. Jesus lived and died to please God.
John 8:29
And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.
Jesus also claimed that the works that He did were a testimony to who He is......
31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus replied, `I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone me?’
33 The Jews answered, `It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God.’
34 Jesus answered, `Is it not written in your law, “I said, you are gods”?
35 If those to whom the word of God came were called “gods” and the scripture cannot be annulled
36 can you say that the one whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world is blaspheming because I said, “I am God’s Son”?
37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.’
Are we not also sons and daughters of God? Do our works not reveal His glory to others? Is the Father in us and we in Him?
Who are you to question the motives of others? Do you know their hearts as only God can know them? And what is it that God wants for us? Jesus said God desires that all men be saved? Can it be wrong then to want that for ourselves?
What you call brownie points, Jesus calls treasure in heaven.
If we are moved by love for God to do good works for those who may not deserve those works, isn’t that pleasing to God? If it is not, what does that say about the work of Jesus? After all, Jesus did what He did out of love for God and love for us. Was Jesus not pleasing to God? In the same way, are we not then pleasing to God, and don’t our works, done out of love for Him and for our neighbor, give glory to Him?
Is not the reward for doing God’s will and thus pleasing Him eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven?
Ephesians6:8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
One last thing, what does the letter Timothy tell us about Scripture?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every Good Work.
Yes, yes, all true. It is written. And what is written about in the New Testament? Jesus revealing the true meaning of what had been written.
Think of this.....many of the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah because He was not exactly what they were expecting, for they did not grasp the true meaning of what had been written. As Jesus said, they did not have the love of God in their hearts. They searched Scripture thinking they had eternal life but failed to come to Jesus because they did not see/find Jesus in the written word.
He had to come in the flesh for the Word to be revealed. Jesus had to come to reveal God’s love and the greatest commandments. Scripture alone was not enough.
What was written had to be interpreted so that all could be understood.
The corporal works of mercy are spelled out in Scripture though the specific phrase is not.
Sola Scriptura is spelled out in Scripture even though the specific phrase is not.
The verses showing it have been posted time and again for years and are rejected off hand by every Catholic who reads them. It's a total knee jerk reaction. They've been taught it's wrong by the church and they never even stop to question is. They swallow it whole without even thinking it through.
Sola Scriptura
Scripture is adequate.
Actually, the detail of the Trinity is in the Bible!
18* g Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19h Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20i teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
Yes, I know. I said the concept is there but the word is not.
*******Sola Scriptura is spelled out in Scripture even though the specific phrase is not.*****
I am beginning to wonder if you think through what you post.
What Scripture says about Scripture is that it is the inspired Word of God and that from it one can know God, believe in Jesus and be saved.
What Scripture does not say about Scripture is that it is the only way that one can know God, believe in Jesus and be saved.
That’s pretty specific.
*****The verses showing it have been posted time and again for years and are rejected off hand by every Catholic who reads them. It’s a total knee jerk reaction. They’ve been taught it’s wrong by the church and they never even stop to question is. They swallow it whole without even thinking it through.*****
The verses showing the opposite of Sola Scriptura have been posted time and again for years and are rejected off hand by protestants in a knee jerk reaction. They’ve been taught the Church is wrong and never even stop to question it. They swallow it whole without even thinking it through.
See how this works?
It is arrogant and prideful to claim that Catholics do not think this through or are even incapable of doing such.
Considering the number of books written on just this subject by Catholics using Scripture reveals what an insidious claim it is.
Talk about knee jerk reactions!
Adequate for teaching, rebuking, correcting and for instruction to equip the man of God for every good work.
Yep, that is what the Catholic church believes, holds as true and teaches.
What is doesn’t teach is that which is NOT found anywhere in Scripture and that is that the written Scripture is the only way one can teach, rebuke, correct or instruct. Also, that it is not the only way one can know of salvation.
Praise be to God for His Holy Word and praise be to God for His Holy Church to whom He entrusted the mission of proclaiming His Gospel to the whole world.
More from the Bible to compliment what you have posted.
http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html
Scripture Alone Disproves "Scripture Alone"
Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.
Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15 - those that preached the Gospel to all creation but did not write the Gospel were not less obedient to Jesus, or their teachings less important.
Matt. 28:20 - "observe ALL I have commanded," but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves "Bible alone" theology.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to "preach," not write, and only three apostles wrote. The others who did not write were not less faithful to Jesus, because Jesus gave them no directive to write. There is no evidence in the Bible or elsewhere that Jesus intended the Bible to be sole authority of the Christian faith.
Luke 1:1-4 - Luke acknowledges that the faithful have already received the teachings of Christ, and is writing his Gospel only so that they "realize the certainty of the teachings you have received." Luke writes to verify the oral tradition they already received.
John 20:30; 21:25 - Jesus did many other things not written in the Scriptures. These have been preserved through the oral apostolic tradition and they are equally a part of the Deposit of Faith.
Acts 8:30-31; Heb. 5:12 - these verses show that we need help in interpreting the Scriptures. We cannot interpret them infallibly on our own. We need divinely appointed leadership within the Church to teach us.
Acts 15:1-14 – Peter resolves the Church’s first doctrinal issue regarding circumcision without referring to Scriptures.
Acts 17:28 – Paul quotes the writings of the pagan poets when he taught at the Aeropagus. Thus, Paul appeals to sources outside of Scripture to teach about God.
1 Cor. 5:9-11 - this verse shows that a prior letter written to Corinth is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul is again appealing to a source outside of Scripture to teach the Corinthians. This disproves Scripture alone.
1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful to obey apostolic tradition, and not Scripture alone.
Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. There is nothing ever about obeying Scripture alone.
Col. 4:16 - this verse shows that a prior letter written to Laodicea is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul once again appeals to a source outside of the Bible to teach about the Word of God.
1 Thess. 2:13 – Paul says, “when you received the word of God, which you heard from us..” How can the Bible be teaching first century Christians that only the Bible is their infallible source of teaching if, at the same time, oral revelation was being given to them as well? Protestants can’t claim that there is one authority (Bible) while allowing two sources of authority (Bible and oral revelation).
1 Thess. 3:10 - Paul wants to see the Thessalonians face to face and supply what is lacking. His letter is not enough.
2 Thess. 2:14 - Paul says that God has called us "through our Gospel." What is the fullness of the Gospel?
2 Thess. 2:15 - the fullness of the Gospel is the apostolic tradition which includes either teaching by word of mouth or by letter. Scripture does not say "letter alone." The Catholic Church has the fullness of the Christian faith through its rich traditions of Scripture, oral tradition and teaching authority (or Magisterium).
2 Thess 3:6 - Paul instructs us to obey apostolic tradition. There is no instruction in the Scriptures about obeying the Bible alone (the word "Bible" is not even in the Bible).
1 Tim. 3:14-15 - Paul prefers to speak and not write, and is writing only in the event that he is delayed and cannot be with Timothy.
2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says apostolic tradition is passed on to future generations, but he says nothing about all apostolic traditions being eventually committed to the Bible.
2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it. Again, this refers to tradition which is found outside of the Bible.
James 4:5 - James even appeals to Scripture outside of the Old Testament canon ("He yearns jealously over the spirit which He has made...")
2 Peter 1:20 - interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation. Therefore, it must be a matter of "public" interpretation of the Church. The Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter. Private judgment leads to divisions, and this is why there are 30,000 different Protestant denominations.
2 Peter 3:15-16 - Peter says Paul's letters are inspired, but not all his letters are in the New Testament canon. See, for example, 1 Cor. 5:9-10; Col. 4:16. Also, Peter's use of the word "ignorant" means unschooled, which presupposes the requirement of oral apostolic instruction that comes from the Church.
2 Peter 3:16 - the Scriptures are difficult to understand and can be distorted by the ignorant to their destruction. God did not guarantee the Holy Spirit would lead each of us to infallibly interpret the Scriptures. But this is what Protestants must argue in order to support their doctrine of sola Scriptura. History and countless divisions in Protestantism disprove it.
1 John 4:1 - again, God instructs us to test all things, test all spirits. Notwithstanding what many Protestants argue, God's Word is not always obvious.
1 Sam. 3:1-9 - for example, the Lord speaks to Samuel, but Samuel doesn't recognize it is God. The Word of God is not self-attesting.
1 Kings 13:1-32 - in this story, we see that a man can't discern between God's word (the commandment "don't eat") and a prophet's erroneous word (that God had rescinded his commandment "don't eat"). The words of the Bible, in spite of what many Protestants must argue, are not always clear and understandable. This is why there are 30,000 different Protestant churches and one Holy Catholic Church.
Gen. to Rev. - Protestants must admit that knowing what books belong in the Bible is necessary for our salvation. However, because the Bible has no "inspired contents page," you must look outside the Bible to see how its books were selected. This destroys the sola Scriptura theory. The canon of Scripture is a Revelation from God which is necessary for our salvation, and which comes from outside the Bible. Instead, this Revelation was given by God to the Catholic Church, the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
What Scripture does not say about Scripture is that it is the only way that one can know God, believe in Jesus and be saved.
***SIGH***
There's special revelation and general revelation.
General revelation gives us all we need to know about God and His eternal power and divine nature.
Special revelation names names and tells us what Jesus did.
Even John himself said that what he wrote was enough for a person to come to know that Jesus was the son of God and be saved through that, so in essence, all one even needs is the Gospel of John.
But sola Scriptura is not about whether everything God wants us to know about Himself is contained in Scripture or not. That's another argument.
What sola Scriptura is about is Scripture being the final authority to which all claims about God are to be measured. It is the absolute standard of truth by which all truth claims are to be made.
It is authoritative because of its inherent nature of being the Holy Spirit inspired, God breathed word of God and in it God tells us that EVERYTHING we need to know to be mature, completely equipped men and women of God can be found in it.
That doesn't mean that other things can't be of benefit, but those other things are not authoritative, nor are they on the same level as Scripture.
If all someone has was a Bible, they could be all God wants them to be, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And if you're referring to the verses where Paul talks about traditions they passed on, then you be the first to answer these questions, because not one single Catholic has ever ventured to give it a try.
Just what are those traditions Paul was referring to that he handed down that we are to keep that were not included in Scripture?
How do you know?
How do you know theyre from the apostles, Paul in particular?
How do you know theyve been passed down faithfully?
What is your source for verifying all of the above?
Please provide the sources for verification purposes.
Answer this also....
So you really think that if there was something so important for us to know for our salvation and spiritual growth, that God would have neglected to include it in His Word?
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