Posted on 04/09/2014 9:44:02 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
Was "Babylon The Great" a Symbolic Name for Jerusalem? Part II: Mother of Harlots and Sins of Sodom.
Jerusalem was completely destroyed in 70 AD, and over 1.1 million people were slaughtered or starved to death; both as a result of an internal civil war, and a later siege and assault by the Roman armies. Yet there is barely a direct mention of the magnitude of destruction and death in the New Testament, with the exception of these passages in Luke:
"And when [Jesus] was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." (Luke 19:41-44 KJV)
"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." (Luke 21:20 KJV)
Jesus said the destruction would occur in the generation of his disciples, which is exactly when it occurred:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:32 KJV)
The purpose of this series of posts is to show how there was a substantial and fairly detailed reference in the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the destruction of Jerusalem under the pseudo-name of Babylon the Great. In Part I we discussed how Babylon the Great and old Jerusalem were both responsible for the same blood: in particular the blood of the prophets. We now look at the similarities of whoredom by both cities.
Whatever the sins of Sodom, the sins of Jerusalem were worse, according to Ezekiel. He begins with a general statement of why God adopted the Israelites as his children:
"Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all. None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born. And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare." (Eze 16:2-7 KJV)
And the Lord turned Jerusalem into a prosperous and beautiful kingdom:
"I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom." (Eze 16:10-13 KJV)
Babylon the Great was similarly adorned:
"And the woman [Babylon the Great] was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication . . . And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! (Rev 17:3-4, 18:16 KJV)
Both Babylon the Great and Jerusalem were called the great city in the Revelation. This is Jerusalem:
"And their dead bodies [of the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8 KJV)
Note that Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. The Jerusalem-Sodom comparison is referenced in the prophets, and will be discussed below. But the Egypt comparison is not so clear. We know that the children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt; but how does that relate to Jerusalem? Paul explains it here:
"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." (Gal 4:24-26 KJV)
We never think much about the children of Israel being in bondage in the days of Christ; but Christ indicated they were in bondage in part of his mission statement:
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;" (Isa 61:1 KJV)
Now on to the Sodom comparison: first, we should note that Jerusalem rebelled against God and played the harlot:
"And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God. But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them," (Eze 16:14-17 KJV)
In comparison, Babylon the Great was called the Mother of Harlots:
"And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. " (Rev 17:5 KJV)
But Ezekiel implied that Jerusalem was also a mother of harlots, and her sins were worse than Sodom's!
"And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters. Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. " (Eze 16:46-48 KJV)
This was Isaiah regarding Judah and Jerusalem:
"How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers." (Isa 1:21 KJV)
Here Isaiah claims Jerusalem is like Sodom and Gomorrah; and only by the grace of God were any saved. Isaiah then instructs the rulers of Jerusalem as if the city really is Sodom or Gomorrah:
"Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah." (Isa 1:9-10 KJV)
Paul quotes verse 9 in this passage where he explains the destiny of the children of Israel:
"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For [Jesus] will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. " (Rom 9:27-29 KJV)
In the judgement against Jerusalem and her daughters, Ezekiel prophecies that Jerusalem will not return to its former estate, until Sodom is restored. That is unlikely. Does anyone even know where Sodom was located?
"When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate." (Eze 16:55 KJV)
In the matter of judgement, both Jerusalem and Babylon the Great were made desolate. This is Babylon:
“… for in one hour is she made desolate.” (Rev 18:19)
This is Jerusalem:
“Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.” (Jer 7:34)
Compare the last verse with this one in the Revelation referencing Babylon the Great:
“And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee ... And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:” (Rev 18:23-24)
In summary, we have already seen in Part I the similarities in blood vengeance on Jerusalem and Babylon the Great: and now we see that both are called the great city; both are mothers of harlots; both are made desolate; and neither shall ever hear the voice of the bridegroom and the bride, again.
I must conclude that the destruction of Babylon the Great in the Revelation is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Philip
Literal? Jerusalem is a literal city. Not destroyed. It is the home to a million + Jews. It currently straddles 5 ridges, not 7 hills. Not ever.
>>>Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.<<<
>>>The eighth beast comes near the end of this world which may be closer than we think.<<<
I don't see it that way at all. First, it says "kings," not "kingdoms." Second, there is a perfect fit with the seven kings and the first seven "kings" (emperors) of the Rome Empire. This is the verse:
"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time." (Revelation 17:10 KJV)
And these are the kings:
Date Emperor
69 B.C. - 44 A.D. Julius Caesar
31 B.C. - 14 A.D. Augustus Caesar
14 A.D. - 37 A.D. Tiberius Caesar
37 A.D. – 41 A.D. Gaius (Caligula)
41 A.D. - 54 A.D. Claudius
54 A.D. - 68 A.D. Nero Caesar
Nero, the sixth king, persecuted the Saints for 42 months prior to committing suicide. The Seventh king was Galba, who was killed in office after only 6 months.
They really do fit the scripture perfectly. Regarding their identity as "kings," recall the verse where the Jews said, "We have no king but Caesar." (John 19:15.)
Philip
>>>Unfortunately, you’re not even close to being right Philip... You’ve missed it by almost 2,000 years. ;)<<<
Why not 20,000 years?
Philip
I thought it was the original name for Baghdad - seriously.
It does seems to be in Iraq south of Baghdad.
>>>After, all there certainly were stones left standing on top of one another in 70 AD, so that prophecy (and its associated prophecies) could not have been fulfilled at that time.<<<
What you have heard is most likely a myth: an urban legend. From all I have read, it seems that all the buildings were completely destroyed. If you have any proof whatsoever that there were parts of any of the buildings left standing, I will appreciate you providing it.
Thanks,
Philip
“If you have any proof whatsoever that there were parts of any of the buildings left standing, I will appreciate you providing it.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson%27s_Arch
>>>Wasn’t it John and his band of bandits that were robbing and killing people and not a civil war?<<<
I guess it depends on how you look at it.
This was the initial parting into two factions:
IV.7.1. BY this time John was beginning to tyrannize, and thought it beneath him to accept of barely the same honors that others had; and joining to himself by degrees a party of the wickedest of them all, he broke off from the rest of the faction . . . the sedition was divided into two parts, and John reigned in opposition to his adversaries over one of them...
This is where it parted into three factions:
V.1,1. . . while [Titus] was assisting his father at Alexandria, in settling that government which had been newly conferred upon them by God, it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of Divine justice.
This section refers to the destruction of the food supplies:
V.1.4. And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other... Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of the famine. . .
Note that Titus has not yet arrived on the scene.
Philip
>>>... many of then still sit one atop another yet today. <<<
Who told you that?
Philip
>>>The word Babylon means confusion. God is not the author of confusion. Harlotry can be physical or spiritual.<<<
What is your point?
Philip
>>>I thought it was the original name for Baghdad - seriously. It does seems to be in Iraq south of Baghdad.<<<
Ancient Babylon was located in that area, I believe between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
Philip
They really do fit the scripture perfectly.
But what about the beast who is of the seven, and also the ten kings who did not have any kingdoms at that time and gives their power to the beast to destroy the whore?
From your link:
“The arch was built as part of the Temple Mount’s massive western retaining wall, which forms its eastern support.”
How does that disprove the prophecy? There are others who believe, based on accounts by Josephus, that the so-called Wailing Wall was not part of the Temple mount, but was rather part of Fort Antonia or the wall of the city.
This site shows a diagram of the Temple on the left, and Fort Anatonia on the far right.
http://askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm
This is a quote from the site:
“What you are about the see in the illustrations at the conclusion of this Report is the description of the Temple and Fort Antonia as presented by Josephus, the Jewish historian. He was an eyewitness to the City of Jerusalem before the Romans destroyed it in A.D.70.”
These are other sites if you would like to compare:
http://templemountlocation.com/fortAntonia.html
http://www.becomingone.org/templemount.htm
Philip
>>>You can start with the Western Wall of the Second Temple. It’s rather prominent and obvious.<<<
Except the so-called “Wailing Wall” was most likely not a part of the Temple. See my post #75 for more info.
Philip
You never responded to a comment I made on Jerusalem, Part I.
the 7 heads are 7 kings are 7 mountains
“9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings.”
It is an enduring SYSTEM.
I believe I stopped at this one (my numbering):
>>>1. But guilty of ALL the blood of the righteous? Hmmmmm. That doesn’t fit any of them.<<<
My response was, "Jesus said it did. He said Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the prophets."
Then you responded with this:
>>>2. Jesup gave parameters to all those prophets he meant. He named the names <<<
>>>3. The Revelation happened afterwards and in all those years from the time Jesus spoke more were numbered as prophets.<<<
>>>4. Agabus, for example, was a biblically acknowledged prophet who was outside the time parameters mentioned by Jesus and not among those named by Him<<<
That was such an incomprehensible response from you, with no scriptural support, I assumed that nothing I or Jesus said would make any difference.
If you care to clear up those four points with scriptural references, maybe we can continue our discussion.
Philip
What is incomprehensible about Jesus’ parameters being set and Agabus not being inside those parameters?
I believe I stopped at this one (my numbering):
>>>1. But guilty of ALL the blood of the righteous? Hmmmmm. That doesn’t fit any of them.<<<
My response was, "Jesus said it did. He said Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the prophets."
Then you responded with this:
>>>2. Jesup gave parameters to all those prophets he meant. He named the names <<<
>>>3. The Revelation happened afterwards and in all those years from the time Jesus spoke more were numbered as prophets.<<<
>>>4. Agabus, for example, was a biblically acknowledged prophet who was outside the time parameters mentioned by Jesus and not among those named by Him<<<
That was such an incomprehensible response from you, with no scriptural support, I assumed that nothing I or Jesus said would make any difference.
If you care to clear up those four points with scriptural references, maybe we can continue our discussion.
Philip
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