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To: Religion Moderator; RegulatorCountry; daniel1212
Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal." Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

I do not understand. Reading post 230. Do not play semantically games. >Catholics pray to Mary and the saints. Anyone imploring someone in Heaven by favors would be called praying.

The stated objection is that asking anyone in heaven to pray for you is regarded as prayer itself. If you ask someone who is in your church to pray for you it does not upset those who object to the Catholic tradition of doing Mary to pray for you.

I don't see mind reading here, or maybe someone was trying to read my mind.

255 posted on 04/06/2014 9:21:56 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981
of doing Mary to pray for you

asking Mary to pray for you

spell checking sw changed words "asking" to "doing"

256 posted on 04/06/2014 9:25:19 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981
The mind reading was in post 244: "So you admit Mary is in heaven, interesting. And that is what troubles you.."
259 posted on 04/06/2014 9:36:05 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: af_vet_1981
The stated objection is that asking anyone in heaven to pray for you is regarded as prayer itself.

Begging the question.


Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.
 
1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.
 
2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
Example: Convert or die.
 
3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.
 
4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?
 
5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
 
6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.
 
7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
 
8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.
 
9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.
 
10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
Example: Do you still beat your wife?
 
11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.
 
12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.
 
13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.
 
14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.
 
15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.
 
16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.
 
17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.
 
18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.
Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.

300 posted on 04/07/2014 4:05:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: af_vet_1981
And that is what troubles you, for if you asked someone in your Protestant church to pray for you, you would be comfortable. I see where you're coming from. You just would be uncomfortable asking Lazarus, Martha, Mary the sister of Lazarus and Martha, or Mary the mother of God with us, to pray for your genuine needs.

I don't see mind reading here, or maybe someone was trying to read my mind.

I believe it is because you read my mind in judging why i was uncomfortable, which was a logical deduction based upon a what seemed to be a superficial reason (simply because they are in glory), when in fact as i stated, yet which is far more substantial.

In addition to what i said in response, only almighty God is shown being able to hear virtual infinite amounts of prayer from those on earth, whereas communication btwn created being from each real required them to be in one realm or the other, even if in a vision, and was btwn an individual on earth, and in which the communication was apparently via words, not mind reading or corporate mental prayer.

The FR rules against mind reading here also do not apply to the Almighty, but no where do we see even angels in Heaven being able to hear mental prayers of those on earth, which is a unique attribute of Deity, yet which Catholics ascribe to men, thinking of men (mankind) above that which is written. (1Cor. 4:6)

322 posted on 04/07/2014 7:02:18 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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