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To: pgyanke
Did it escape your notice that you're mixing timeframes? Mary was called "full of grace" before Christ was born, died and resurrected. There is a reason we call her first among Christians.

That is absurd, as it makes Mary second class after Jael as blessed among women, who served a salvific purpose for Israel:

Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent. (Judges 5:24)

Moreover, being the first mentioned does not equate to superiority -which is what is claimed for Mary in virtue - as salvation is of the Jews, they being first stewards of Scripture, the and he that is born into the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist (take that you Baptists!), while the word itself (charitoō=graced/favored) does not convey any superior degree.

She literally was the first was saved by Christ because she was saved FOR Christ (to be His dwelling prior to birth).

That is incorrect also, as God "saved" Israel first to be His instrument and vessel of salvation, and in fact if Mary was not Jewish, she would not have been used:

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:3-5)

And the response of the Lord to the protoCatholic who declared, "Blessed is the womb that bore thee and the paps that gave thee suck." was,

But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it," (Luk 11:27,28 DRB) thus deflecting a perfect chance to expand on and exalt Mary above all.

Furthermore, the idea that a sinless vessel was required is also absurd, for not only due God bring forth his pure word thru imperfect men, but if God preserved Mary from "original sin" (which even the EOs reject) then He could have brought forth Christ thru Eve.

Mary was a holy virtuous women who was blessed above all in that she was chosen to be the vessel to bring forth Christ and serve as his mother "according to flesh," without being ontologically called the "mother of God."

But which does not mean she is the most righteous, and in fact she is rather marginal in the NT, and is never mention as an object of devotion throughout, while the Holy Spirit gives far far more print to describing the sacrificial love and labor of Paul, and to whom He manifestly attributes no sin, but who is relatively marginalized by RCs.

484 posted on 03/21/2014 8:58:22 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

And the response of the Lord to the protoCatholic who declared, ... was, ... thus deflecting a perfect chance to expand on and exalt Mary above all.

I think that is a misapplication of the text. I don't think it is honest to impugn Catholics with it. Catholics don't teach that Miriam is holy and blessed because she was only the human mother of Jesus, but because of the nature of her spiritual faith and submission, the living sacrifice of her life that she offered to God.

I read it in the context of a culure where the multi-generational popular aspirations of Jewish women was to bear the Messiah, as if the physical mother could rule over the spiritual mother. Think of all the other incorrect assumptions and miscontrued applications that Yeshua had to deal with in that generation.

We know that Miriam was not like that caricature woman at all. We know from the Scriptures that she was overshadowed by the Spirit of God. Not only did she bare and nurture Yeshua, but she remained with Him throughout his life and was faithful even in his death and resurrection where she is evident and resident with the Apostles. We know she heard the Word of God and kept it. No one who has the Spirit of God can read this Scripture and not be deeply moved by the courage, faith, and holiness of this woman. She is the Virgin of Israel, the mother of Yeshua, the mother of Emmanuel, the woman of Revelation 12. Not only is she blessed, but she is a blessing; we are blessed to be part of her family.

And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

736 posted on 03/25/2014 4:36:19 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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