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To: daniel1212
And the Greek (charitoō=graced/favored) says the same of all believers:

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (Eph 1:6)

Did it escape your notice that you're mixing timeframes? Mary was called "full of grace" before Christ was born, died and resurrected. There is a reason we call her first among Christians. She literally was the first was saved by Christ because she was saved FOR Christ (to be His dwelling prior to birth).

435 posted on 03/21/2014 4:21:57 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
Did it escape your notice that you're mixing timeframes? Mary was called "full of grace" before Christ was born, died and resurrected. There is a reason we call her first among Christians.

That is absurd, as it makes Mary second class after Jael as blessed among women, who served a salvific purpose for Israel:

Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent. (Judges 5:24)

Moreover, being the first mentioned does not equate to superiority -which is what is claimed for Mary in virtue - as salvation is of the Jews, they being first stewards of Scripture, the and he that is born into the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist (take that you Baptists!), while the word itself (charitoō=graced/favored) does not convey any superior degree.

She literally was the first was saved by Christ because she was saved FOR Christ (to be His dwelling prior to birth).

That is incorrect also, as God "saved" Israel first to be His instrument and vessel of salvation, and in fact if Mary was not Jewish, she would not have been used:

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:3-5)

And the response of the Lord to the protoCatholic who declared, "Blessed is the womb that bore thee and the paps that gave thee suck." was,

But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it," (Luk 11:27,28 DRB) thus deflecting a perfect chance to expand on and exalt Mary above all.

Furthermore, the idea that a sinless vessel was required is also absurd, for not only due God bring forth his pure word thru imperfect men, but if God preserved Mary from "original sin" (which even the EOs reject) then He could have brought forth Christ thru Eve.

Mary was a holy virtuous women who was blessed above all in that she was chosen to be the vessel to bring forth Christ and serve as his mother "according to flesh," without being ontologically called the "mother of God."

But which does not mean she is the most righteous, and in fact she is rather marginal in the NT, and is never mention as an object of devotion throughout, while the Holy Spirit gives far far more print to describing the sacrificial love and labor of Paul, and to whom He manifestly attributes no sin, but who is relatively marginalized by RCs.

484 posted on 03/21/2014 8:58:22 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: pgyanke
Did it escape your notice that you're mixing timeframes? Mary was called "full of grace" before Christ was born, died and resurrected. There is a reason we call her first among Christians.

Jesus had a different opinion about who the greatest person born was and there was no mention of Mary in it.

Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

488 posted on 03/21/2014 9:07:02 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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