Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
For preserving and teaching it, yes. Without the Church (and Monks copying the Bible by hand before the printing press), the Bible could have been lost in the Dark Ages.
How about the Holy Mass...
1 Cor 11:23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;
24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of the bread, and drink of the cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.
Exodus 20 and many other references throughout the OT tell us all worship, prayer and thanksgiving belong to God and God is the only One worthy of such. When Jesus taught us to pray it was to The Father through Him. Please find an OT prayer or Psalm directed towards Moses or any other human being. You won’t find one. When Joshua prayed he went directly to God and did not invoke the name of Moses nor seek the departed Moses as an intercessor.
The only example we have of an OT figure calling on a departed “saint” is when King Saul called upon Samuel through a witch.
I asked this question a few times in the past with no answer. Please point me to the NT apostolic teachings of Mary and or the “saints” addressed in an intercessory role.
So now you presume to know the mechanisms of God and what he MUST do? Mary's role was special and unique in all of history. Get over it.
Ok a logical argument. Then we should surmise from John being given Mary as mother of the church should logically conclude John should have been the first pontiff.
1 Tim 2:1-4: First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Do you believe in a universal Church? Do you believe in the Communion of Saints? If you do, then you must understand that being a universal Church, it is in all places (universal!), including Heaven. If you believe in the Communion of Saints, then you must understand that the Saints in Heaven are part of our Christian community and we can turn to them as we turn to each other for prayers and intercessions.
Please direct me to the John 1 passage on Mary. Thanks could not find it.
Illogical conclusion. That role was given.
Let's play another logical argument... Protestants like to say that Mary is not ever-virgin and Jesus had siblings, right? So, how is it seemly for Jesus to give into the care of a non-family member if He has siblings who could (and should) care for her? The answer is it is not... unless He was doing something else from the Cross.
So... logically... do you fall into the "no siblings" camp or the Mother of the Church camp?
I have to admit... I was wondering about this as well.
His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
Too late; you’re already deep in nonsense.
I guess my concern with this is that no where in the Bible is she ever referred to in this sense.
It is a man-made idea.
All of those “saints” and doctors will be there for your inquiry in the Lake that burns.
I recommend reading the confession of Patrick of Hibernia. He sounds a lot like Paul of Tarsus than Thomas Aquinas. His command of the NT, Psalms, Torah and Prophets is a testimony for us all.
It is a man-made idea.
So was the idea that men did not have to be circumcised to be part of the Covenant of God. But the Apostles made that call from the authority given to them by Christ (Acts 15). Just so, the Church has been given an unfolding revelation through the centuries and we have learned much of the economy of God. Nothing has changed... just brought to a deeper level of understanding.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”510
Names of God from the Bible. Compare them to the names given to Mary in the above prayer.
Jesus
Hope (our) - 1 Timothy 1:1
Counselor - Isaiah 9:6
Advocate - 1 John 2:1
Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24
Holy Spirit
Comforter - John 14:26
Helper – John 14:16
This is worship of Mary if ever there was.....Attributing to her the attributes of God is idolatry.
Sure here is a theologian who opines on mankind as all sinners and no exceptions:
Romans 3:19-28 KJV
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Please point out for me in Luke chapter 1, or anywhere else, where we find the proclamation of Mary as queen of heaven.
wasn’t circumcision part of the Law?
kind of a leap to make there equating the worship of Mary with this change I think.
Again...nothing in Scripture regarding this.
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