Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
I’ve read the Bible.
Does this preclude God from removing someone from earth if He choses? No.
Why then do you limit God in dealing with others of His people? Think about it.
I have...we only have the two instances as noted in the Bible.
You’re saying the folks you reference were not sinners...never sinned....ever. They were not in need of offering a sacrifice for their sins.....ever??
Straw man. Go back and read what I wrote. If you truly don’t understand it, let me know and I’ll try to explain it better.
Nope...no straw man. Taking what you said and trying to understand it because your points don’t line up with Scripture.
What more of a citation is needed but the proud and emphatic admission of those practices here in this thread?
I call it a full confession and a plea of guilty.
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All who are in Yeshua are filled with the very same grace.
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Cool! Me too!
Why then do you limit God in dealing with others of His people? Think about it.
>>I have...we only have the two instances as noted in the Bible.
And yet... John 20:30 & 21:25.
Nope...no straw man. Taking what you said and trying to understand it because your points don’t line up with Scripture.
I tried to simply tell you... now I'll also understand it for you...
Looking at the context of St Paul in Romans 3, he quotes the Psalms in verses 10-12; specifically Psalm 14:2-3: "As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away; they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Looking at this, is St Paul saying that there truly are no righteous people? I gave you a short list of those called "righteous" right after that: Joseph, Zechariah & Elizabeth and even a "company of the righteous" spoken of just two verses later in Psalms.
St Paul's language of not one righteous (and then backing it up with demonstratives) in the midst of the Bible showing those who are indeed righteous should tell you you've got the wrong interpretation of Scripture. Your wrong interpretation applies to Rom 3:23 as well... as I showed in my earlier post.
So... the full weight and history of the Church with all of her Saints and Doctors who have carefully and prayerfully developed the doctrines of the Church... vs your opinion.
I'm not swayed.
If you were humble, I would recommend further study... but you aren't... so I won't bother. You can remain in your self-limiting echo-chamber feeling superior, as you wish. Should you decide on further study, I will be ready to help.
May God bless you and be merciful to you.
Go reread Rom 12:6 so we don't have to keep batting at nonsense.
Were Joseph, Zechariah & Elizabeth in need of a Savior then?
The Bible clearly teaches that all people have sinned — except Jesus (1 Peter 2:22). Romans 3:23 clearly condemns all under sin.
But when it mentions people like Job, Noah, Zacharias, and Elizabeth as people who were “blameless” and “righteous” it is not saying that they are not sinners. It is saying that they were godly people, who kept the commandments of God and in that sense, they were righteous.
But of course, we realize that no one can keep the commandments of God perfectly which is why all people are deserving of damnation (Eph. 2:3) and why we need a savior.
If righteousness can come through the Law, then Christ died needlessly (Gal. 2:21).
Sorry. Not going down this rabbit hole. I tried to help you understand. You're still going off on a tangent. Done.
Mary was the Ark of the Covenant carrying the Son of God. She deserves every good thing that can be said about her. The Bible didn’t pick out Mary nor did the Catholic Church. Mary was picked by God to be the mother of his son. If that’s something that someone can’t accept, then take it up with God.
We have had this conversation before and I ended up posting the scriptures Athanasius used to provide evidence of the Trinity. The same scriptures we see in Patrick of Hibernia’s confession as well. So I suggest you read the works of Athanasius and look keenly at the scriptural foundation invoked.
I will also remember to ping you when I and others debate JWs and oneness types here on the RF. Providing solid evidence from scriptures for the Trinity is really not that hard to do if one studies the scriptures.
I have had little success in getting Roman Catholics to join Trinity or Deity of Christ Jesus discussions in the past. I figured many RCs would be happy to jump in. However, most who do drop in end up siding and defending JW claims that the Deity of Christ and the Trinity cannot be found in scriptures. Amazing how far some will go to side with folks who deny the Deity of Christ in order to try to prove the importance of tradition over scriptures.
Or then what is it if not worship?
See post 172.
My point being the NT Scriptures we know as the 27 books of the NT canon were available to churches within the 1st Century.
Mary was the Ark of the Covenant....
Where does this come from??
Does the Roman Church take credit for the OT as well? Jesus told his disciples the following:
Luke 24:44-49 KJV
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
2 Thessalonians 2:15...
Please list the traditions Paul was discussing.
You are right a better question is Mary’s mother and her father’s seed would need to be sinless as well and their parents etc.
Mary was conceived of a human man and woman right?
Yes Exodus 20 God tells us He is a jealous God.
Who is Christ? He is the Manna come down from Heaven, the ruler of Israel according to the Davidic line and the Word made flesh. Mary carried these within her and she is correctly identified as the Ark of the New Covenant.
More.
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