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How Do we Know the Gospels are Historical?
http://www.strangenotions.com ^ | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 03/11/2014 6:32:04 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

Among Catholics and atheists, is easy to exchange convinced assertions: “The gospels are 100% God’s holy Word and every bit is historically accurate!” or “The gospels are fairy tales!” However there is a discipline called “Biblical scholarship” in which scholars do some very interesting work determining just which parts of the gospels they think are reliable and which they think are not. Their conclusions are, of course, debated. That’s what scholars do. Their work is fascinating and it is worth taking some time to look at just a smidgen of their methodology and conclusions.

Bible scholars are most interested in trying to determine whether the original gospels record eyewitness accounts, and whether those original versions have been transmitted accurately. To do this scholars consider several factors: 1) authorship and date of composition, 2) intention and genre, 3) gospel sources and oral tradition, 4) textual criticism, 5) historical authenticity of specific sayings and narrative events.

One of the difficult aspects for modern people to understand is just what kind of document the gospels are. Everyone can admit that they are not written as purely historical documents, but neither are they simply fabulous fables, myths, or fairy tales. In continuity with the Old Testament, and consistent with their Jewish origins, we have documents which are presented as history and have plenty of historically verifiable details, but which also have supernatural and otherworldly elements to them

(Excerpt) Read more at strangenotions.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: apologetics; bible; historicity; historicityofchrist; historicityofjesus
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To: fabian

Plenty of bombast and brag; but where is the LEARNING we apostates need?


161 posted on 03/13/2014 1:48:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fabian
Oh please...the last book of the bible warns that anyone who takes from it, so shall be taken from them in eternity.

Then it behooves YOU to show us the removed parts so we can be as wise as you.

Do your job!

162 posted on 03/13/2014 1:49:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

yes..the word...Jesus..the spirit of truth..but apostate Christians treat that passage as though it is about the written truth. They have made the bible a book of idolatry.


163 posted on 03/13/2014 1:49:42 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: fabian

Your FR profile includes a link to fhu.com

The founder of that organization is recorded to have said that “one of the biggest curses in Christendom is the false idea that Jesus is God.”

Do you agree with Roy Masters?


164 posted on 03/13/2014 1:56:06 PM PDT by Theo (May Christ be exalted above all.)
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To: fabian

It is written truth.

Do you think the Holy Spirit who inspired it would lie?


165 posted on 03/13/2014 2:36:33 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Elsie

People who have looked into it know very well that many scriptures did not make it into the bible...hello!


166 posted on 03/13/2014 2:52:35 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: fabian
People who have looked into it know very well that many scriptures did not make it into the bible...hello!

I have contributed work to two major Bible translations. Yes, there are so-called scriptures which didn't make it into our translations, and for good reason. They are NOT considered inspired by the Holy Spirit.

167 posted on 03/13/2014 4:24:05 PM PDT by GarySpFc (We are saved by the precious blood of the God-man.)
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To: GarySpFc

Oh no..I am talking about way way back. The was plenty of very good texts excluded.


168 posted on 03/13/2014 4:31:27 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: thecodont
Thank you for your examples of the Messianic prophecies, and your mention of Evidence That Demands a Verdict (I'll have to go buy myself a copy).

No need to buy a copy unless you want to have it on your bookshelf. It is available for free, online... Just click the link!

Evidence That Demands a Verdict


169 posted on 03/13/2014 4:50:47 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Today, doesn't it seem like we have a Corrupt Bastards Club in D.C.? On steroids?" -Sarah Palin)
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To: fabian; GarySpFc
Oh no..I am talking about way way back. The was plenty of very good texts excluded.

The Holy Spirit is the moving force that God used (uses) to implement His actions. It is the "Breath of God". You wish to limit the work of the Holy Spirit, and therefor, of God, when you talk about "way back".

Man is not able to do anything without God. Scripture is "God-breathed" into the minds and hearts, and the Holy Spirit of God motivates some to record it and others to keep it. To say that God is not able to keep the record straight is a form of blasphemy... and blasphemy is the ONLY unforgivable sin!

Matthew 12: 30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Question: "What does it mean that God is eternal?"

Answer: The word eternal means "everlasting, having no beginning and no end." Psalm 90:2 tells us about God’s eternality: “Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.” Since humans measure everything in time, it is very hard for us to conceive of something that had no beginning, but has always been, and will continue forever. However, the Bible does not try to prove God’s existence or His eternality, but simply begins with the statement “In the beginning God…” (Genesis 1:1), indicating that at the beginning of recorded time, God was already in existence. From duration stretching backward without limit to duration stretching forward without limit, from eternal ages to eternal ages, God was and is forever.

Read more..."What does it mean that God is eternal?"

170 posted on 03/13/2014 5:03:42 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Today, doesn't it seem like we have a Corrupt Bastards Club in D.C.? On steroids?" -Sarah Palin)
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To: Elsie
I have them recorded on a 4G flash drive. Does THAT count?

They didn't HAVE flash drives back then...it was probably an 8-track. ;o)

171 posted on 03/13/2014 5:31:20 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: WVKayaker

you don’t get it..it is all about our own holy spirit within...not a book. The book only testifies to the life within!


172 posted on 03/13/2014 6:25:01 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: fabian
People who have looked into it know very well that many scriptures did not make it into the bible...hello!

The old 'Everybody knows' mantra; spoken by one with, evidently, no EVIDENCE to back up his claim.

173 posted on 03/13/2014 6:38:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fabian
you don’t get it..it is all about our own holy spirit within...not a book.

HMMMmmm...

174 posted on 03/13/2014 6:39:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fabian
People who have looked into it know very well that many scriptures writings did not make it into the bible.

Yes; this is true.

That's because they did not pass muster.

Of course; other folks muster recipe is different than the men who did actually DID compile the collection of writings we call a bible.

175 posted on 03/13/2014 6:42:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fabian; Elsie; GarySpFc
you don’t get it..it is all about ...

People who have looked into it know ...

Wow. You paint with such a broad brush and treat others as ignorant bumblers with no clue about Scripture. Yet, you display a profound lack of understanding what the Word of God gives to us.

Certainly, the Holy Spirit is indwelling in all BELIEVERS. But, God saw it necessary to add a written record to help with a proper understanding of His economy. Through the guidance of God's Spirit, men were moved to act and obey to make that writing available. But, may more tried to add something to what God Spoke, and again, through the guidance of God's Spirit, men were moved to agree on what words were reliable for posterity. The result is what we now call the Bible.

The sad thing is that your type reject the very power of the holy spirit by over emphasizing the bible.... -Fabian

I had the privilege to attend Elim Bible Institute back in the 1970's. I learned quite a bit about God's Word. I also learned quite a bit about certain people that decide they are the arbiters of truth and talk about others as "your type". Usually they have no clue... and that is where I see your posts!

John 14: 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. ...

2 Timothy 3: 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. ...

176 posted on 03/13/2014 7:06:46 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Today, doesn't it seem like we have a Corrupt Bastards Club in D.C.? On steroids?" -Sarah Palin)
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To: fabian; WVKayaker
you don’t get it..it is all about our own holy spirit within...not a book. The book only testifies to the life within!

Hello, Einstein....

Without the BOOK, you wouldn't even KNOW about Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

I constantly get a laugh out of people who reject the Bible as the Holy Spirit inspired word of God and say it isn't complete or adequate, and then talk about Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, etc.

Cause without the very book they reject as authoritative, they wouldn't know about all the other things they accept.

177 posted on 03/13/2014 7:12:36 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

“Without the BOOK, you wouldn’t even KNOW about Jesus or the Holy Spirit.”

That is where your type is totally lost...at Pentecost, they had no new testament and they did not need it! Same with us..the spirit works the same way today and always has. You totally miss it by bible intellectualization. You have bible idolatry, like many poor souls. Too bad, you are blowing your real salvation.


178 posted on 03/13/2014 7:25:13 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: Elsie

the Lost Books of the Bible....sold at your local book store is one such evidence..with plenty of good facts that back up it being legit scripture that was left out.


179 posted on 03/13/2014 7:27:00 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: fabian
That is where your type is totally lost...at Pentecost, they had no new testament and they did not need it!

They didn't need the NT to tell them about the Holy Spirit because they had the OLD TESTAMENT to tell them about Him.

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit,

Your type doesn't follow God's Holy Spirit.

Whatever feelings and delusions your type follows, if it doesn't line up with Scripture, it isn't the HOLY Spirit.

180 posted on 03/13/2014 7:34:45 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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