Skip to comments.
church_me
Answering Protestants ^
| 7 March 2014
| Matthew Olson
Posted on 03/07/2014 10:14:06 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
Only trusting the Bible without the Church would be like loving "Romeo & Juliet" and hating Shakespeare's explanation of it.
"Follow" me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/crucifixwearer
"Like" Answering Protestants on Facebook: http://facebook.com/AnsweringProtestants
Add Answering Protestants to your Circles on Google+: http://plus.google.com/106938988929282894016
"Subscribe" to my YouTube videos: http://youtube.com/user/crucifixwearer
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; christian; church; jesus; pimpmyblog
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280, 281-300, 301-320, 321-335 last
To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
A few others who shared Luther's view, recognize any of these Catholic 'saints" compiled by St Bellarmine, is that your namesake listed there? How embarrassing!
Origen, Commentarius in Ep. ad Romanos, cap. 3 (PG 14.952)
. Hilary, Commentarius in Matthaeum 8:6 (PL 9.961).
Basil, Hom. de humilitate 20.3 (PG 31.529C).
Ambrosiaster, In Ep. ad Romanos 3.24 (CSEL 81.1.119): sola fide justificati sunt dono Dei, through faith alone they have been justified by a gift of God; 4.5 (CSEL 81.1.130).
John Chrysostom, Hom. in Ep. ad Titum 3.3 (PG 62.679 [not in Greek text]).
Cyril of Alexandria, In Joannis Evangelium 10.15.7 (PG 74.368 [but alludes to Jas 2:19]).
Bernard, In Canticum serm. 22.8 (PL 183.881): solam justificatur per fidem, is justified by faith alone. Theophylact, Expositio in ep. ad Galatas 3.12-13 (PG 124.988).
To these eight Lyonnet added two others (Quaestiones, 114-18):
Theodoret, Affectionum curatio 7 (PG 93.100; ed. J. Raeder [Teubner], 189.20-24).
Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (Parma ed., 13.588): Non est ergo in eis [moralibus et caeremonialibus legis] spes iustificationis, sed in sola fide, Rom. 3:28: Arbitramur justificari hominem per fidem, sine operibus legis (Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law). Cf. In ep. ad Romanos 4.1 (Parma ed., 13.42a): reputabitur fides eius, scilicet sola sine operibus exterioribus, ad iustitiam; In ep. ad Galatas 2.4 (Parma ed., 13.397b): solum ex fide Christi [Opera 20.437, b41]).
See further: Theodore of Mopsuestia, In ep. ad Galatas (ed. H. B. Swete), 1.31.15.
Marius Victorinus (ep. Pauli ad Galatas (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15-16: Ipsa enim fides sola iustificationem dat-et sanctificationem (For faith itself alone gives justification and sanctification); In ep. Pauli Ephesios (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15: Sed sola fides in Christum nobis salus est (But only faith in Christ is salvation for us).
Augustine, De fide et operibus, 22.40 (CSEL 41.84-85): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intellegatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur (Although it can be said that Gods commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love). Migne Latin Text: Venire quippe debet etiam illud in mentem, quod scriptum est, In hoc cognoscimus eum, si mandata ejus servemus. Qui dicit, Quia cognovi eum, et mandata ejus non servat, mendax est, et in hoc veritas non est (I Joan. II, 3, 4). Et ne quisquam existimet mandata ejus ad solam fidem pertinere: quanquam dicere hoc nullus est ausus, praesertim quia mandata dixit, quae ne multitudine cogitationem spargerent [Note: [Col. 0223] Sic Mss. Editi vero, cogitationes parerent.], In illis duobus tota Lex pendet et Prophetae (Matth. XXII, 40): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere Dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intelligatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur; tamen postea Joannes ipse aperuit quid diceret, cum ait: Hoc est mandatum ejus, ut credamus nomini Filii ejus Jesu Christi, et diligamns invicem (I Joan. III, 23) See De fide et operibus, Cap. XXII, §40, PL 40:223.
Source: Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361.
If that wasn't enough,
Even some Catholic versions of the New Testament also translated Romans 3:28 as did Luther. The Nuremberg Bible (1483), allein durch den glauben and the Italian Bibles of Geneva (1476) and of Venice (1538) say per sola fede.
Read history, and cease to be a modern-day Catholic!
luther added word alone to romans
321
posted on
03/15/2014 3:01:18 PM PDT
by
xone
To: LurkingSince'98
322
posted on
03/15/2014 3:57:20 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: LurkingSince'98
323
posted on
03/15/2014 3:57:29 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
◄ Matthew 6:1
►
Parallel Verses
New International Version"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
New Living Translation"Watch out! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven.
English Standard VersionBeware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
New American Standard Bible "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
King James BibleTake heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Holman Christian Standard Bible"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
International Standard Version"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people in order to be noticed by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
NET Bible"Be careful not to display your righteousness merely to be seen by people. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in heaven.
Aramaic Bible in Plain EnglishPay attention in your charity giving, that you do it not in front of people so that you may be seen by them, otherwise there is no reward for you with your Father in Heaven.
GOD'S WORD® Translation"Be careful not to do your good works in public in order to attract attention. If you do, your Father in heaven will not reward you.
Jubilee Bible 2000Take heed not to do your alms {lit. acts of mercy} before men, to be seen of them; otherwise, ye have no reward of your Father who is in the heavens.
King James 2000 BibleTake heed that you give not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise you have no reward of your Father who is in heaven.
American King James VersionTake heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise you have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
American Standard VersionTake heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Douay-Rheims BibleTAKE heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.
Darby Bible TranslationTake heed not to do your alms before men to be seen of them, otherwise ye have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens.
English Revised VersionTake heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father which is in heaven.
Webster's Bible TranslationTake heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen by them: otherwise ye have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Weymouth New Testament"But beware of doing your good actions in the sight of men, in order to attract their gaze; if you do, there is no reward for you with your Father who is in Heaven.
World English Bible"Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Young's Literal Translation Take heed your kindness not to do before men, to be seen by them, and if not -- reward ye have not from your Father who is in the heavens;
|
324
posted on
03/15/2014 10:31:05 PM PDT
by
Syncro
(So? -Andrew Breitbart [1969-2012] RIP King of The New Media)
◄ Matthew 6:1
►
Parallel Verses
New International Version"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
New Living Translation"Watch out! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven.
English Standard VersionBeware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
New American Standard Bible "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
King James BibleTake heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Holman Christian Standard Bible"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
International Standard Version"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people in order to be noticed by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
NET Bible"Be careful not to display your righteousness merely to be seen by people. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in heaven.
Aramaic Bible in Plain EnglishPay attention in your charity giving, that you do it not in front of people so that you may be seen by them, otherwise there is no reward for you with your Father in Heaven.
GOD'S WORD® Translation"Be careful not to do your good works in public in order to attract attention. If you do, your Father in heaven will not reward you.
Jubilee Bible 2000Take heed not to do your alms {lit. acts of mercy} before men, to be seen of them; otherwise, ye have no reward of your Father who is in the heavens.
King James 2000 BibleTake heed that you give not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise you have no reward of your Father who is in heaven.
American King James VersionTake heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise you have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
American Standard VersionTake heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Douay-Rheims BibleTAKE heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.
Darby Bible TranslationTake heed not to do your alms before men to be seen of them, otherwise ye have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens.
English Revised VersionTake heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father which is in heaven.
Webster's Bible TranslationTake heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen by them: otherwise ye have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Weymouth New Testament"But beware of doing your good actions in the sight of men, in order to attract their gaze; if you do, there is no reward for you with your Father who is in Heaven.
World English Bible"Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Young's Literal Translation Take heed your kindness not to do before men, to be seen by them, and if not -- reward ye have not from your Father who is in the heavens;
|
325
posted on
03/15/2014 10:31:56 PM PDT
by
Syncro
(So? -Andrew Breitbart [1969-2012] RIP King of The New Media)
To: Syncro
Kind of puts an end to bragging rights about what good works people are doing.
326
posted on
03/16/2014 5:05:36 AM PDT
by
metmom
(...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
To: xone
These Catholics wanted to add the word "alone" to James?
That was strictly Luther's idea.
_______________________________________________________
"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works?" James 2:14
And no, the Catholics you cite did not hold Luther's view regarding "faith alone." They understood that "faith without works is dead." They understoood that faith/works are two sides of the same coin.
Ironically, your citation from St. Augustine exemplifies this understanding:
Although it can be said that Gods commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love
Love = caritas = charity
(Did you read the citations that you cut and pasted from the internet? I can google stuff too, you know).
The quote from St. Thomas is obviously separating faith from the 613 precepts of the Torah, such as the prohibition against eating port, etc.:
Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them, but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law
The Catholic position has always been salvation by
grace alone.
327
posted on
03/16/2014 7:18:39 AM PDT
by
St_Thomas_Aquinas
( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
To: xone
I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or the Greek text" (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127)At least Catholics are consistent, they excerpt others out of context, just like they do scripture. Why not post the context? Because it doesn't fit the agenda.
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." --James 2:24 The most important example of dogmatic influence in Luthers version is the famous interpolation of the word alone in Rom. 3:28 (allein durch den Glauben), by which he intended to emphasize his solifidian doctrine of justification, on the plea that the German idiom required the insertion for the sake of clearness. But he thereby brought Paul into direct verbal conflict with James, who says (James 2:24), "by works a man is justified, and not only by faith" ("nicht durch den Glauben allein"). It is well known that Luther deemed it impossible to harmonize the two apostles in this article, and characterized the Epistle of James as an "epistle of straw," because it had no evangelical character ("keine evangelische Art").
--History of the Christian Church
328
posted on
03/16/2014 8:22:36 AM PDT
by
St_Thomas_Aquinas
( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
These Catholics wanted to add the word "alone" to James? If you read the citations, the complaint was 'alone' to Romans 3:28, James has no such thing.
And no, the Catholics you cite did not hold Luther's view regarding "faith alone." They understood that "faith without works is dead." They understoood that faith/works are two sides of the same coin.
As opposed to the citations. I don't hold that they held to 'faith alone', just that they did indeed cite it as such. I'm stuck between believing an anonymous poster on the net, or my lying eyes. I can only report what they wrote.
understood as that live faith, which works through love
As any true Protestant will attest. But the works avail nothing for salvation, but indicate only that the faith is alive, a saving faith.
The Catholic position has always been salvation by grace alone.
And indeed it is, through faith as the Apostle Paul writes over and over.
To which the Catholic church has added extra requirements to that belief through faith in the redemptive work of Christ in order to merit salvation, in opposition to the clear words of the Lord and Apostolic teachings.
329
posted on
03/16/2014 12:48:09 PM PDT
by
xone
To: xone
330
posted on
03/16/2014 1:04:55 PM PDT
by
metmom
(...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Read it, saw it, there is no conflict between Paul and James in the totality of scripture, let alone the context of James 2:24.
James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeand shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousnessand he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
331
posted on
03/16/2014 1:07:14 PM PDT
by
xone
To: metmom
Being ex-communicated from the CATHOLIC church means nothing to me because that is not the means of salvation and I am still a member of the body of Christ because of being born again. lots of luck with that theory....do you believe in man made global warming too????
332
posted on
03/16/2014 5:52:43 PM PDT
by
terycarl
(common sense prevails over all else)
To: metmom
He inspired the authors of Scripture to record that Mary was the *mother of Jesus*? I thought, just momentarily, that Jesus was God....mother of Jesus is the Mother of God...
333
posted on
03/16/2014 5:55:24 PM PDT
by
terycarl
(common sense prevails over all else)
To: terycarl
What? Are you also going to tell the Holy Spirit that He messed up when He referred to Mary as *mother of Jesus* in Scripture?
334
posted on
03/16/2014 7:19:33 PM PDT
by
metmom
(...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
To: metmom
What? Are you also going to tell the Holy Spirit that He messed up when He referred to Mary as *mother of Jesus* in Scripture? She is the mother of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was right.....she is also the mother of God...you cannot separate Jesus' natures. He was fully God and He was fully human at the saame time.
335
posted on
03/18/2014 12:37:41 PM PDT
by
terycarl
(common sense prevails over all else)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280, 281-300, 301-320, 321-335 last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson