According to Scripture (Sola Scriptura)

http://www.catholic.com ^ | Tim Staples

[NKP_Vet]

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

[roamer_1]

[roamer_1:] As to CynicalBear, I think he would readily admit that he and I don't see eye to eye on many things.

ROFL! Say it ain’t so Roamer! Say it ain’t so.

; )

Perhaps, at least, we can agree on this. Can I get a witness?

[roamer_1]

It’s a duck!

[CynicalBear]

I find it astonishing that you chose to focus on Job 19:25-27. You deny that Christ will establish a throne here on earth. But let’s look at Job 19:25 again.

. Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Is it your contention that when Christ was on this earth the first time that that was the “later day”?

[CynicalBear]

LOL You mean other than I hate the taste of Beer? God is indeed good and speak for yourself on the people crazy part. Well everybody else is and that leaves you and me and I’m not too sure about you. :-)

I quess you and I just ain't never gonna agree on everything. Come to think of it. I ain't never found anyone agrees with me on everything. Yep, guess their all crazy sep me!!

[restornu]

Jesus has to return we are not a finish work yet, I know this sounds funny but I was amused

Jesus has to assign us housing yet...LOL

we need a little lite moments I am sure Obama children will get a house but maybe not the one they want!:)

John 14:2

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

[CynicalBear]

The problem is that you are talking about a different Jesus than we are.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>The quote you reference is pointed directly at the House of Israel, and is undoubtedly future. Can YOU measure the pattern of the Temple? Can YOU understand the form of the House, the fashion of it, it's comings and goings, and all the forms thereof??? Do YOU understand the laws and ordinances thereof?<<<

Undoubtedly? You mean like when Ezekiel referred to the house of Israel at the destruction of Jerusalem.

>>>And it is certainly not conditional - that is the declaration from the fall of Adam all the way through to Revelation.<<<

So, when the Lord said this he didn’t mean it?

"Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan; Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places: And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it." (Num 33:51-53 KJV)

“But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.” – Numbers 33:55-56 (see also Deuteronomy 8:19-20)

"And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the Lord thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. As the nations which the Lord destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God." (Deu 8:19-20 KJV)

>>>You must be of the impression that there was EVER an efficacy in the blood of animals. Certainly Scofield seems to be. Secondly, there are many kinds of sacrifice, not only atonement... and lastly, why kill the animals... In Melchizedek we are made priests and kings - the priests eat the sacrifice of the Temple.... Ever heard of barbeque? FOR SURE the Torah will go forth from Jerusalem - the Torah and the Holy Days will be kept - and the whole earth will keep them. That FRiend, has never happened yet.<<<

And it won't. The third temple is all spiritual, and it dwells on mount Sion and within us:

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." (2 Cor 6:16 KJV)

There will be no return to the Mosaic age. It is finished, and has been for nearly 2000 years. The law of ordinances was abolished by the cross.

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Col 2:13-17 KJV)

The law of the Lord can now be explained in a single sentence:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Mat 7:12 KJV)

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Gal 5:14 KJV)

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." (Jam 2:8-9 KJV)

The doctrine of James 2:9 has been virtually ignored. God, who at one time was no respecter of persons within the twelve tribes, when Israel was his chosen people, is now no respecter of persons, at all, since he now considers us all one blood.

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" (Acts 17:24-26 KJV)

What you have interpreted as physical Jerusalem, is in fact the Holy City, New Jerusalem: a spiritual city that all nations walk in the spiritual light of. It is also called the Church, and is eternal. The kingdom of God (or Heaven) is the way the Church has grown: like a grain of mustard seed, planted as the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, to spread throughout the nations:

"The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof." (Mat 13:31-32 KJV)

"And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it." (Mark 4:30-32 KJV)

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Is it your contention that when Christ was on this earth the first time that that was the “later day”?<<<

I thought everyone knew that the last days were at the end of the old covenant age. This is the establishment of heavenly mount Sion and New Jerusalem:

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it." (Isa 2:2 KJV)

This is the Day of Pentecost:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" (Acts 2:16-18 KJV)

And this is referring to the ministry of Christ:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Heb 1:1-2 KJV)

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Ether speaks of a New Jerusalem to be built in America by the seed of Joseph<<<

I would forget that notion. Where would we build such an enormous physical structure on earth. At a minimum it would be about 350 miles on each side, and more likely about 1500 miles on each side. That would also be the height. This image puts it into perspective:

http://www.tourofheaven.com/eternal/new-jerusalem/size.aspx

Therefore, it is safe to assume that New Jerusalem is a spiritual city.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

Cynical Bear, ping police quack me up:

The Story about Ping

Philip :)

[restornu]

The problem is that you are talking about a different Jesus than we are.

***

Well sense you brought it up...

I don't believe that, I knew Jesus when I was in mainstream I knew his voice, and I was looking for more instructions from the Lord, there were loose ends in the my scriptures, and I knew there was more. So I prayed and asked the Lord, because I was not getting anything answers here on earth, my whole journey has been a one on one with God, I left the Tradition of Men long ago...

And now I am contented for things that the are spoken bring such comfort and Joy in my life...

Eph. 4

11 And he gave‍ some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors‍ and teachers;

12 For the perfecting‍ of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying‍ of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity‍ of the faith, and of the knowledge‍ of the Son of God, unto a perfect‍ man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth‍ be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and‍ cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth‍ in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even‍ Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles‍ walk, in the vanity‍ of their mind,

When I read the Bible, now I read with more in depth and clarity of understanding, so many passages come to life, that I would have never known. if it was not for the Book of Mormon and other standard works such a feast.

[CynicalBear]

Your believing a gospel the apostles didn’t teach. The gospel the LDS teaches is accursed.

[CynicalBear]

So who was the antichrist who set up as God in the Temple prior to 70AD? And when was Revelation written?

[metmom]

Mormonism teaches that God was a mortal man once, had sex with Mary and fathered Jesus. Jesus is a separate being from the Father, being the half-brother of Satan, who was born to another of God’s wives.

Right there, that is NOT the Jesus of the NT. The Mormon Jesus is not able to save anyone because he is not the Jesus of the NT who died for us.

Using all the *correct* words doesn’t mean a thing if they don’t have the same meaning.

[CynicalBear]

What date was it when the Euphrates River dried up?

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

[CynicalBear]

The Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are drying up [http://endtimestruth.com/tigris-and-euphrates-rivers-are-drying-up/]

Why would they just now be drying up if that was all done with before 70AD?

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>So who was the antichrist who set up as God in the Temple prior to 70AD? And when was Revelation written?<<<

There is no individual "antichrist," since that term includes everyone of every religion (or no religion) that denies Jesus is the Christ. I will assume you are referring to the following passage, since you did not provide a reference:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Th 2:3-4 KJV)

If you compare the Greek word for temple, you will find that is the word that is used for a spiritual temple. For example, when Jesus was in the temple, as in Mat 24:1, the Greek word was this:

(2411) hee-er-on’; a sacred place, i.e. the entire precincts of the Temple (at Jerusalem or elsewhere)

When Jesus referred to his body as the temple, as in Mat 26:51, the Greek word was this:

(3485) nah-os’; a fane, shrine, temple: — shrine, temple.

After the book of Acts, the Greek Word nah-os (3485) is used in all but instance of the word temple, when Paul used it in 1 Corinthians in the following manner:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13)

Therefore, my interpretation of the Man of Sin is that he received the Holy Ghost; but began to use it for evil, like Judas (both are referred to as sons of perdition.) He got so "cocky," if you will, that he thought he was God, which would make him the spiritual temple of God.

Whatever the case, I would find it most difficult to squeeze a physical temple out of that short passage.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>What date was it when the Euphrates River dried up?
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.<<<

Who are the kings of the East?

[CynicalBear]

>> Whatever the case, I would find it most difficult to squeeze a physical temple out of that short passage.<<

I don’t doubt that you would as it would intrude on your theory. The antichrist is called “Man of Sin”. He is throughout scripture identified as an individual.

[CynicalBear]

>>Who are the kings of the East?<<

What difference does that make? When did it dry up?