Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sola Scriptura – An Unbiblical Recipe for Confusion
Tim Staples' Blog ^ | January 18, 2014 | Tim Staples

Posted on 01/25/2014 6:51:38 AM PST by GonzoII

Sola Scriptura – An Unbiblical Recipe for Confusion

Sola scriptura was the central doctrine and foundation for all I believed when I was Protestant. On a popular level, it simply meant, “If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!” And it seemed so simple. And yet, I do not recall ever hearing a detailed teaching explicating it. It was always a given. Unchallenged. Diving deeper into its meaning, especially when I was challenged to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism, I found there to be no book specifically on the topic and no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors.

Once I got past the superficial, I had to try to answer real questions like, what role does tradition play? How explicit does a doctrine have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? How many times does it have to be mentioned in Scripture before it would be dogmatic? Where does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How do we know what the canon of Scripture is using the principle of sola scriptura? Who is authorized to write Scripture in the first place? When was the canon closed? Or, the best question of all: where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible? These questions and more were left virtually unanswered or left to the varying opinions of various Bible teachers.

The Protestant Response

In answer to this last question, “Where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible?” most Protestants will immediately respond as I did, by simply citing II Tm. 3:16:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

“How can it get any plainer than that? Doesn’t that say the Bible is all we need?” Question answered.

The fact is: II Timothy 3—or any other text of Scripture—does not even hint at sola scriptura. It says Scripture is inspired and necessary to equip “the man of God,” but never does it say Scripture alone is all anyone needs. We’ll come back to this text in particular later. But in my experience as a Protestant, it was my attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism that led me to conclude: sola scriptura is 1) unreasonable 2) unbiblical and 3) unworkable.

Sola Scriptura is Unreasonable

When defending sola scriptura, the Protestant will predictably appeal to his sole authority—Scripture. This is a textbook example of the logical fallacy of circular reasoning which betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself. One cannot prove the inspiration of a text from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, writings of Mary Baker Eddy, the Koran, and other books claim inspiration. This does not make them inspired. One must prove the point outside of the text itself to avoid the fallacy of circular reasoning.

Thus, the question remains: how do we know the various books of the Bible are inspired and therefore canonical? And remember: the Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura in the process.

II Tim. 3:16 is not a valid response to the question. The problems are manifold. Beyond the fact of circular reasoning, for example, I would point out the fact that this verse says all Scripture is inspired tells us nothing of what the canon consists. Just recently, I was speaking with a Protestant inquirer about this issue and he saw my point. He then said words to the effect of, “I believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth as Jesus said in Jn. 16:13. The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them to gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God. God would not leave us without his word to guide us.”

That answer is much more Catholic than Protestant! Yes, Jn. 16:13 does say the Spirit will lead the apostles—and by allusion, the Church—into all truth. But this verse has nothing to say about sola scriptura. Nor does it say a word about the nature or number of books in the canon. Catholics certainly agree that the Holy Spirit guided the early Christians to canonize the Scriptures because the Catholic Church teaches that there is an authoritative Church guided by the Holy Spirit. The obvious problem is my Protestant friend did not use sola scriptura as his guiding principle to arrive at his conclusion. How does, for example, Jn. 16:13 tell us that Hebrews was written by an apostolic writer and that it is inspired of God? We would ultimately have to rely on the infallibility of whoever “the Holy Spirit” is guiding to canonize the Bible so that they could not mishear what the Spirit was saying about which books of the Bible are truly inspired.

The fact is, the Bible does not and cannot give us the answer to this question about the canon. It is an historical fact that the Church used Sacred Tradition outside of Scripture for her criterion for the canon. And the early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue of the canon, also needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree on the whole matter.

In order to put this argument of my friend into perspective, can you imagine if a Catholic made a similar claim to demonstrate, say, Mary to be the Mother of God? “We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth.” Would the Protestant respond with a hearty, amen? I think not! I can almost hear the response. “Show me in the Bible where Mary is the Mother of God! I don’t want to hear about God guiding the Church!” Wouldn’t the same question remain for the Protestant concerning the canon? “Show me in the Bible where the canon of Scripture is, what the criterion for the canon is, who can and cannot write Scripture, etc.”

Will the Circle be Unbroken?

The Protestant response at this point is often an attempt to use the same argument against the Catholic. “How do you know the Scriptures are inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular because you say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so and then say the Scriptures are inspired and infallible because the Church says so!”

The Catholic Church’s position on inspiration is not circular. We do not say “the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so.” The Church was established historically and functioned as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. However, it is true that we know the Scriptures to be inspired because the Church has told us so. That is also an historical fact. However, this is not circular reasoning. When the Catholic approaches Scripture, he or she begins with the Bible as an historical document, not as inspired. As any reputable historian will tell you, the New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history. To deny the substance of the historical documents recorded therein would be absurd. However, one cannot deduce from this that they are inspired. There are many accurate historical documents that are not inspired. However, the Scriptures do give us accurate historical information whether one holds to their inspiration or not. Further, this testimony of the Bible is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christians and non-Christian writers like Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and more. It is on this basis that we can say it is an historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses. Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event (see Lk. 1:1-4, Jn. 21:18-19, 24-25, Acts 1:1-11, I Cr. 15:1-8).

Now, what do we find when we examine the historical record? Jesus Christ—as a matter of history–established a Church, not a book, to be the foundation of the Christian Faith (see Mt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18. Cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10,20-21; 4:11-15; I Tm. 3:15; Hb. 13:7,17, etc.). He said of his Church “He who hears you hears me and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk. 10:16). The many books that comprise what we call the Bible never tell us crucial truths such as the fact that they are inspired, who can and cannot be the human authors of them, who authored them at all, or, as I said before, what the canon of Scripture is in the first place. And this is just to name a few examples. What is very clear historically is that Jesus established a kingdom with a hierarchy and authority to speak for him (see Lk. 20:29-32, Mt. 10:40, 28:18-20). It was members of this Kingdom—the Church—that would write the Scripture, preserve its many texts and eventually canonize it. The Scriptures cannot write or canonize themselves. To put it simply, reason clearly rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle because one cannot determine what the “scriptura” is using the principle of sola scriptura.

Sola Scriptura is Unbiblical

Let us now consider the most common text used by Protestants to “prove” sola scriptura, II Tm. 3:16, which I quoted above:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The problem with using this text as such is threefold: 1. Strictly speaking, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. 2. It does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. 3. The Bible teaches oral Tradition to be on a par with and just as necessary as the written Tradition, or Scripture.

1. What’s Old is Not New

Let us examine the context of the passage by reading the two preceding verses:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood (italics added) you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

In context, this passage does not refer to the New Testament at all. None of the New Testament books had been written when St. Timothy was a child! To claim this verse in order to authenticate a book, say, the book of Revelation, when it had most likely not even been written yet, is more than a stretch. That is going far beyond what the text actually claims.

2. The Trouble With Sola

As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible clearly teaches justification by faith. And we Catholics believe it. However, we do not believe in justification by faith alone because, among many other reasons, the Bible says, we are “justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, emphasis added). Analogously, when the Bible says Scripture is inspired and profitable for “the man of God,” to be “equipped for every good work,” we Catholics believe it. However, the text of II Tim. 3:16 never says Scripture alone. There is no sola to be found here either! Even if we granted II Tm. 3:16 was talking about all of Scripture, it never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith. A rule of faith, to be sure! But not the sole rule of faith.

James 1:4 illustrates clearly the problem with Protestant exegesis of II Tim. 3:16:

And let steadfastness (patience) have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to II Tm. 3:16 we would have to say that all we need is patience to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, etc.

Of course, any Christian would immediately say this is absurd. And of course it is. But James’ emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than St. Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola to be found in either text. Sola patientia would be just as much an error as is sola scriptura.

3. Traditions of Men Vs. The Tradition of God

Not only is the Bible silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but Scripture is remarkably plain in teaching oral Tradition to be just as much the word of God as is Scripture. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, St. Paul said:

And we also thank God… that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God… (I Thess. 2:13)

According to St. Paul, the spoken word from the apostles was just as much the word of God as was the later written word. Further, when St. Paul wrote II Thessalonians, he urged the Christians there to receive both the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are referred to as the word of God.

So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter (II Thess. 2:15).

A common problem among Protestants at this point is a matter of semantics. “Tradition” is often viewed in a negative light because of Jesus’ condemnation of “the tradition of men” in Mark 7:8.

You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.

Notice, this verse makes very clear what kind of tradition it was that Jesus condemned. Jesus condemned the tradition of men, not all tradition. And obviously so; otherwise, you would have Jesus contradicting St. Paul. In fact, you would have Jesus contradicting himself in Matthew 23:2-3:

The scribes and Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.

Jesus both refers to an oral tradition—the chair of Moses—and commands the apostles to believe and obey it.

Sola Scriptura is Unworkable

When it comes to the tradition of Protestantism—sola scriptura—the silence of the text of Scripture is deafening. When it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition, the Scriptures are clear. And when it comes to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the biblical text is equally as clear:

If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone … But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you … If he refuses to listen … tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Mt. 18:15-17)

According to Scripture, the Church—not the Bible alone—is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith and discipline. But isn’t it also telling that since the Reformation of just ca. 480 years ago—a reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 denominations that have derived from it?

For 1,500 years, Christianity saw just a few enduring schisms (the Monophysites, Nestorians, the Orthodox, and a very few others). Now in just 480 years we have this? I hardly think that when Jesus prophesied there would be “one shepherd and one fold” in Jn. 10:16, this is what he had in mind. It seems quite clear to me that not only is sola scriptura unreasonable and unbiblical, but it is unworkable. The proof is in the puddin’!

But Didn’t Jesus Himself Believe Sola Scriptura?

When the Devil tempted Jesus three times in Matthew 4, Jesus always responded with Scripture. In fact, with the second of the three temptations the Devil himself began with Scripture. As an aside, I would have to say that was not very smart of the Devil. If you are going to tempt the Word of God, do you really think you are going to outsmart the Word of God with the word of God?

At any rate, in Matt. 4:6, the Devil begins, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down [from the pinnacle of the Temple]; for it is written, ‘He will give his angels charge of you’ and ‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone’ (quoting Psalm 91:11-12).”

Jesus then responded with Scripture in Matt. 4:7, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God’ (quoting Deut. 6:16).” Doesn’t this prove Jesus believed in sola scriptura?

Absolutely not!

Just because someone quotes Scripture as an authority, this does not mean he believes in sola scriptura. The Catholic Church quotes Scripture all the time and teaches that Scripture is the inerrant word of God. But what does that prove?

The key here is to understand Jesus not only quoted Scripture as authoritative, but he also referred to Tradition as authoritative in texts like Luke 16:22 (ever read anywhere of “Abraham’s Bosom” in the Old Testament? No, this was Jewish Tradition), Matt. 2:23 (Jesus refers to an Oral Tradition “spoken by the prophets” that is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament), and Matt. 23:1-3, which we saw above, where he speaks of the Tradition of “the chair of Moses”).

He also refers to his own authority when he says over and over, “You have heard it said,” and he often quotes Scripture immediately thereafter, but then he says, “But I say unto you…” He then either introduces new revelation or gives an authoritative interpretation of a biblical text (see Matt. 5:21-48) or, sometimes he simply gives an authoritative interpretation of what Scripture truly means, such as in Matt: 5:10-20.

So did Jesus Christ believe in sola scriptura? By no means! Neither should his Church. And while the Church cannot give new revelation as this ended with the death of the last apostolic man (and we know that because of, you guessed it, Tradition in order to understand texts of Scripture like Jude 3), the Church employs Scripture and Tradition just like her Lord, using her teaching authority she receives from her Lord (Matt. 18:15-18).

If you like this post and you would like to learn more, click here



TOPICS: Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; scripture; solascriptura; timstaples
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 521-531 next last
To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
There is more.

Consider the election of Pope Damasus 1, who is officially a Roman Catholic Church "saint."

On the death of Liberius on 24 September 366, one faction supported Ursinus (or Ursicinus), who had served as deacon to Liberius, while another faction, previously loyal to the Antipope Felix II, supported Damasus. The upper-class partisans of Felix supported the election of Damasus, but the opposing supporters of Liberius, the deacons and laity, supported Ursinus. The two were elected simultaneously (Damasus' election was held in San Lorenzo in Lucina) in an atmosphere of rioting. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Damasus_I#Succession_crisis

Oxford historian J. N. D. Kelly (whom RCAs sometimes quote) writes that Damasus hired a gang of thugs that stormed the Julian Basilica, carrying out a three day massacre of the Ursinians. - Kelly, J. N. D. (1989). The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. USA: Oxford University Press. pp. 32,34

And this from RC Eamon Duffy FBA, FSA, Irish Professor of the History of Christianity and past member of the Pontifical Historical Commission:

Since the mid third century there had been a growing assimilation of Christian and secular culture. It is already in evidence long before Constantine with the art of the Christian burial sites round the city, the catacombs. With the imperial adoption of Christianity, this process accelerated. In Damasus’ Rome, wealthy Christians gave each other gifts in which Christian symbols went alongside images of Venus, nereids and sea-monsters, and representations of pagan-style wedding-processions. - Eamon Duffy , author of "10 Popes Who Shook the World," etc.

More .

181 posted on 01/26/2014 3:49:18 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
Martin Luther conveniently got rid of the parts of the Bible that supported Purgatory.

Which were not canonized by the Roman Catholic Church until Luther started the Reformation.

Those books, like Maccabees, were surely in the Jewish Temples at the time of Jesus.

Surely? Not quite sure, are you? They may have been in the Temple but they were not in the Jewish canon.

182 posted on 01/26/2014 5:06:34 AM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

Wow! What a revelation. Who would have imagined that CATHOLICS might have played a part in the history of the US.

What they can't do is take full responsibility for it as they keep trying to do. And not only for that but for absolutely everything.

Kind of like the Ruskies during the Cold War. Whatever the US did, they did it first.

183 posted on 01/26/2014 5:16:01 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
There were at least two Catholics who were delegates to the Constitutional Convention. Catholics fought in the Revolutionary War.

Wow! What a revelation. Who would have imagined that CATHOLICS might have played a part in the history of the US.

What they can't do is take full responsibility for it as they keep trying to do. And not only for that but for absolutely everything.

Kind of like the Ruskies during the Cold War. Whatever the US did, they did it first.

184 posted on 01/26/2014 5:16:14 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: NKP_Vet
Why do you call the Catholic New Testament the Bible. Show me where the word Bible is in the Bible.

Then why does the RCC take credit for the BIBLE?

Since they take credit for it, then YOU tell US why it's called the Bible when the word isn't found in there.

185 posted on 01/26/2014 5:23:34 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: GonzoII; All

I suppose a person could take each point in the article and either refute or confirm but let’s just take one at random:

“The key here is to understand Jesus not only quoted Scripture as authoritative, but he also referred to Tradition as authoritative in texts like Luke 16:22 (ever read anywhere of “Abraham’s Bosom” in the Old Testament? No, this was Jewish Tradition),”.

If it was Jewish tradition it was Jewish tradition from the Scriptures.

What is meant by the term “bosom position”? A position of favor and protection such as a shepherd might give a young lamb by holding it in the loose outer garments of the upper body. It is in this sense that Isa. 40:11 speaks of Jehovah gathering his people to His bosom.

When reclining to take a meal the person in front of another was said to occupy the bosom position, that person being able to lean his head back upon a friend and have an intimate conversation or perhaps even receive bits of food.

At any rate the Pharisees had claimed to be children of Abraham and therefore in the bosom position of God as Abraham represented Him. (John 8:31-41)

Need we note the Scriptures showing favor and promise to Abraham’s children or his seed?

Clearly Jesus’ illustration of “Abraham’s Bosom” is not just some Jewish tradition not found in Scripture but Jesus reference to Scripture already well known to his listeners.


186 posted on 01/26/2014 8:21:58 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
"Clearly Jesus’ illustration of “Abraham’s Bosom” is not just some Jewish tradition not found in Scripture but Jesus reference to Scripture already well known to his listeners."

Where is the verse referring to “Abraham’s Bosom” found in Scripture?

187 posted on 01/26/2014 9:02:57 AM PST by GonzoII ("If the new crime be, to believe in God, let us all be criminals" -Sheen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

It all fits with the Roman Catholic meme that nothing good happens without Rome.


188 posted on 01/26/2014 9:16:40 AM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

I know of Charles Carroll who signed the Declaration. If there was a second please provide.

Here is a good link.

http://errantskeptics.org/Religious-Affiliation-56-signers-DeclarationOfIndependence.htm


189 posted on 01/26/2014 9:36:49 AM PST by redleghunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: redleghunter
Yes, his brother was the first Bishop of Baltimore, Maryland. Another brother was a member of the Continental Congress. Read the family link below.

George Washington’s Return from Service to Mount Vernon, Christmas Eve, 1783
Remember, Remember (George Washington and Guy Fawkes Day)
A Tea Party Thomist: Charles Carroll
America’s Catholic Colony [Ecumenical]
The Catholic Church in the United States of America [Ecumenical]
Catholic Founding Fathers - The Carroll Family [Ecumenical]
Charles Carroll, founding father and "an exemplar of Catholic and republican virtue" [Ecumenical]
CITIZEN JOURNALISM: Founding Catholic [Father]
"How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" ( Book Review )

190 posted on 01/26/2014 9:43:26 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: redleghunter

Name of Signer (Constitution)

Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html


191 posted on 01/26/2014 9:53:21 AM PST by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: NKP_Vet
He had the unmitigated gall to actually insert words in the Holy Bible; which that was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Where Catholics have the unmitigated gall to deny parts of scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit.

This world would have been much better off if the great heretic Martin Luther had been executed for heresy.

Apparently, God disagrees with you, which isn't surprising.

192 posted on 01/26/2014 10:19:30 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
Those books, like Maccabees, were surely in the Jewish Temples at the time of Jesus.

Did the Lord quote from them? No He didn't.

193 posted on 01/26/2014 10:21:21 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: xone

So, is it YOUR ridiculous interpretation of history that EVERY WORD spoke by Jesus was written down?

You are absurd.

Jesus visited the Temples, frequently. Jesus has no RECORDED statements or rebukes against the keepers of the Temples for any of the historical documents and manuscripts in the Temples.

If Jesus had a problem with Maccabees or any other writings, why did Jesus not say so, in order to bring both Christians and Jews along on the proper path?

BECAUSE JESUS HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE BOOKS THAT MARTIN LUTHER PURGED FROM THE BIBLE!


194 posted on 01/26/2014 11:01:08 AM PST by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
So, is it YOUR ridiculous interpretation of history that EVERY WORD spoke by Jesus was written down?

No, because scripture informs us otherwise. John 20:31 31 But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

And yet to that Catholics must believe in more in order to be saved.

If Jesus had a problem with Maccabees or any other writings, why did Jesus not say so,

By the same token, purgatory. Huge turn from the rest of scripture. Such an important required doctrine surely would have been explained by the Author of our salvation. Offering prayer to mortal saints departed, I would love to have heard what Paul would have said had he known that the faithful he had instructed in the Gospel would so quickly disregard the "one intercessor between God and man". But since Catholics 'wrote the Bible', I wonder what they would have done with first second and third letters to the Catholics from Paul?

195 posted on 01/26/2014 11:21:29 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: xone

Where did Lazarus go between death and resurrection?

Jesus wept for his friend, and prayed for him.

What was the point, if at death all is decided already?


196 posted on 01/26/2014 11:30:47 AM PST by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58
Where did Lazarus go between death and resurrection?

John 11

4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.”

John 11

41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”

Lazurus' 'death' was for the glory of God that those who saw his resurrection would believe.

What was the point, if at death all is decided already?

Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life He alone defeated death.

Further scripture informs us:

Hebrews 9:

26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

My bold. No, prayer for the dead is useless, pray for the living for their conversion, as the dead are judged at death rendering prayer ineffective since if condemned it avails nothing and if saved adds nothing. If there was 'another' way, would not our Savior have told us? To believe otherwise is Gnosticism.

197 posted on 01/26/2014 11:49:42 AM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58; xone

Jesus told us what is right. He didn’t tell us every possible thing that could be wrong.

He didn’t need to because if it’s not in what He mentioned as right, then it’s at the very least, not important.

The Bible doesn’t say Jesus didn’t own a golf course. Can we then presume that He did because the Bible doesn’t tell us otherwise?


198 posted on 01/26/2014 12:05:40 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: metmom
The Bible doesn’t say Jesus didn’t own a golf course. Can we then presume that He did because the Bible doesn’t tell us otherwise?

Only if it isn't in the book of Holy Tradition.

199 posted on 01/26/2014 12:07:00 PM PST by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: xone

*** Only if it isn’t in the book of Holy Tradition.***

“Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you.” —St. Paul

“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus

“Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ.” —Martin Luther


200 posted on 01/26/2014 12:35:23 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 521-531 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson