Posted on 01/23/2014 9:29:40 PM PST by NKP_Vet
1. Best One-Sentence Summary: I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the biblical data, offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity (i.e., Christian, apostolic Tradition), and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality, spirituality, social ethic, and philosophy.
2. Alternate: I am a Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.
3. 2nd Alternate: I left Protestantism because it was seriously deficient in its interpretation of the Bible (e.g., "faith alone" and many other "Catholic" doctrines - see evidences below), inconsistently selective in its espousal of various Catholic Traditions (e.g., the Canon of the Bible), inadequate in its ecclesiology, lacking a sensible view of Christian history (e.g., "Scripture alone"), compromised morally (e.g., contraception, divorce), and unbiblically schismatic, anarchical, and relativistic. I don't therefore believe that Protestantism is all bad (not by a long shot), but these are some of the major deficiencies I eventually saw as fatal to the "theory" of Protestantism, over against Catholicism. All Catholics must regard baptized, Nicene, Chalcedonian Protestants as Christians.
4. Catholicism isn't formally divided and sectarian (Jn 17:20-23; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10-13).
5. Catholic unity makes Christianity and Jesus more believable to the world (Jn 17:23).
6. Catholicism, because of its unified, complete, fully supernatural Christian vision, mitigates against secularization and humanism.
7. Catholicism avoids an unbiblical individualism which undermines Christian community (e.g., 1 Cor 12:25-26).
8. Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.
(Excerpt) Read more at ourcatholicfaith.org ...
You are more than welcome.
LutherBut according to Luther's abridged Bible, "Nothing impure will ever enter [heaven], nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."I said before that our righteousness is dung in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so (Luther's Works, Vol. 34, page 184).
Why "Bible alone" Christians value Luther's opinions is beyond me. He's not mentioned in the Bible.
According to Jesus, His Church is the final earthly Authority: "if he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector."
Not ME...
Romans 7:18
And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?
Ps 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me
ABRIDGED???
Revelation 21:27
Can’t find the Pope in the Bible either!
On the contrary, in Christ we have died and have been born again into a new and living hope. It's not merely transforming the old nature, it's giving us a whole new one. When He gives us a new natures we are new creatures in Christ. The old has passed away, the new has come.
Why do Catholics always want to take the carnal road and try to take credit for what Christ does? It’s not we in the flesh who are transformed but in the spirit.
Galatians 2:20: Paul speaks of himself and all true Christians: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."
This focus on works that Catholics seem to be obsessed with is interesting. As if somehow we are to in some way earn part of our salvation or justify our salvation. What did Jesus say about works?
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
It’s not what we do or how good we are that saves.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Now as far as a changed life is concerned wouldn’t you suspect that if Christ lives in us there would be some sort of change? But it’s not we who can take credit but again it would be Christ working through us who gets the credit.
Luther inherited his Bible from the Catholic Church. And then he promptly eliminated several books from it. He had that much respect for the Bible.
Sometimes, he added stuff to the Bible, too.
"Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] states, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law" (NKJV). Martin Luther, in his German translation of the Bible, specifically added the word "allein" (English 'alone') to Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] -a word that is not in the original Greek. Martin Luther reportedly said, "You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: 'Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,'…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or the Greek text" (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127). This passage strongly suggests that Martin Luther viewed his opinions, and not the actual Bible as the primary authority--a concept which this author will name prima Luther."I'll say one thing for him, he was unintentionally funny.
Actually, you do. See my tag line...
Regardless, Catholics don't do Luther's "Bible alone" thing. That was his invention. At the very least, you'd think it would be in the Bible, not something he just made up.
Catholic doctrine is based on the Authority of Scripture, Apostolic Tradition (2 Thes 2:15) and Church Teaching (Mat 18:17), all of which, ironically, are found in the Bible.
Nothing I said implies that we can earn salvation.
And I wasn’t talking about moral uplift.
What I was asking about is: Does grace transform me into a creature who is capable of actually loving God? Or do I remain thoroughly ROTTEN and thus incapable of loving God?
My question wasn’t about “works.” It was/is about what I will be in heaven: a ROTTEN creature, with God pretending I am what I am not; or a creature genuinely transformed by grace and capable of having a relationship with God of mutual love?
Galatians 2:20: Paul speaks of himself and all true Christians: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."
It’s Christ’s righteousness that the Father sees when looking at us. Our spirit is transformed, not our carnal flesh. We will get a perfected body after we leave this mortal one. This mortal flesh is incapable of loving God.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
It’s the faith of Christ that we rely on.
Paul says, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20 AV)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)
Of course it does. Most all of your posts are concerned with what we do as opposed to what we believe. The Catholic focus is always on what they do rather than what they believe.
Perhaps this is because they are conversing with you, and you are pushing your extreme sola fide line.
Besides, those whom Jesus said did the good works that saved them, were unaware that they were doing them. The ones who appealed to their works are the ones Jesus sends away.
And this passage in Matthew 25 is when Jesus is on the earth in His kingdom.
Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Also this....
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Luke 9:14-18 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Arthur, really? Not once in the last two months have you mentioned either Jesus or quoted from scripture to support what Catholics believe. There’s lots of talk about what Catholics do and references to canons that talk about how Catholics are to live (aka works) but no references to Jesus blood and sacrifice for our sins or source of our salvation. Not one mention of faith in Christ or His atoning blood for our sins. It’s all about what Catholics do.
I’ve mentioned Jesus many times on this thread. I’ve quoted the gospels repeatedly.
"Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] states, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law" (NKJV). Martin Luther, in his German translation of the Bible, specifically added the word "allein" (English 'alone') to Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] -a word that is not in the original Greek. Martin Luther reportedly said, "You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: 'Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,'…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or the Greek text" (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127). This passage strongly suggests that Martin Luther viewed his opinions, and not the actual Bible as the primary authority--a concept which this author will name prima Luther."
Ok; but how do we GET 'salvation'?
Ok; but how do we KEEP 'salvation'?
Details...
...da debble is in ‘em!
Maybe I missed them? Please show the posts.
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