There is only ONE WAY to be saved.

The Bible ^ | January 12, 2014 | knarf

[knarf]

You don't need a priest, or sacraments, or a "church", or a denomination, or charismatic 'gifts' or baptism or hierarchal permission, sanction nor absolution ...

[CynicalBear]

>> It ALWAYS boils down to one's personal interpretation of Scripture, even if it agrees with someone else's.<<

We put our faith in Christ alone. They put their faith in an organization whether they admit it or not.

[editor-surveyor]

The only verses that are valuable are those that can be taken out of context, and used to prove a lie.

[tired&retired]

“Speaking of, you mentioned Proof of Heaven as not being credible for you.”

I was with him when he told his story for the first time. It was long before he published the book. His birth parents that put him up for adoption were there as well. The woman he mentions as meeting (other than his sister) is a mutual friend. We have quite a few mutual friends.

My NDE was almost 20 years to the day prior to his and caused by the same illness. The biggest problem was that he digressed from the spirituality gained from the experience to owning the experience. There were things he said that did not add up. But most of all, he did not have the feeling of profound Love that true NDE’rs have when they think of their experience. He had a profound spiritual experience but not an NDE in my opinion.

If you want some good ones like Mary Neal’s in her own words, go to the IANDS 2013 website and purchase the video of her presentation. It was excellent.

[tired&retired]

“your experiences, real as they may be, are not from God”

Funny, that’s what the Pharisees said to Jesus about his experiences...

[Rashputin]

Welcome Home !

I finally committed to The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded after more than thirty years in the Wilderness and find more things that now have deeper meanings and fit perfectly with Scripture every day.

You're in for a huge wave of blessings both obvious and subtle.

[tired&retired]

LOL... Your prediction was right on.... I prefer to let the fire sort the chaff from the wheat....

[Gamecock]

At the risk of boring those who think Scripture is somehow insufficient, Romans 6 covers their objections:

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death

[redleghunter]

Luke 18:9-14 KJV

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

[HarleyD]

The Faith is the gift which is given BY his grace....The grace becomes ‘cheap’ when the faith is not appreciated nor nourished, but taken for naught.

If God gives us faith, then how can we not appreciate it? If we have faith, then we appreciate grace. And, as you've stated, faith is a gift from God.

[daniel1212]

Grace is given to us by God. To call it "cheap" is not to understand what grace is all about.

Yes, but while the grace is free and unmerited, what is meant by cheap grace, although a wrong term, is grace that supposedly provides justification by a faith that has no consequences, no effects, contra Acts 26:20; Heb. 6:9,10. As if this was faith in Christ as a mere promise giver, abstract from who He is and who He died for our sins, as sins are antithetical to God.

There was a reason that when Paul "reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. (Acts 24:25)

The response does not merit salvation, but the faith that is counted for righteousness changes lives. God opened Lydia's heart and she believed, was baptized, and then she opened her house to the apostles. (Acts 16:14-16)

Bonhoffer stated,

Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession.... Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”

I am sure you know all this, but too often we are maligned for preaching easy believism, which is what predominates in Rome and liberal Protestantism.

[Morgana]

““Jesus, I believe you died so I could rape and murder all those women, and get “saved” right before the state fries me”.

Signed: Ted Bundy”

I had no idea Bundy ever said this. He was a creep right up to the end.

Jeff Dahmer however I think there might be a chance for him. He did get baptized and I honestly believe his conversion was real. I think he was trying to change and unlike Bundy who was fried by the state Dahmer was murdered by a fellow inmate. So no chance of Dahmer getting “saved” before the state fried him if you catch my drift.

[daniel1212]

It ALWAYS boils down to one's personal interpretation of Scripture, even if it agrees with someone else's.

But for RCs then Rome is the final word, once they submit to her. But then it often comes down to their interpretation of Rome, which to varying degrees they are open to. What is all meant by Lumen Gentium with its interpretation of Pope Boniface VIII in Unam Sanctam, which is held to be an infallible statement by many, is one example.

Then you have such things as, "I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon [Canon 915] was never intended to be used this way.'' -- http://www.canonlaw.info/2009/03/abps-wuerl-c-916-burke-cc-915-916-on.html

Not only, but outside infallible statements, some allowance of pious reverent teachable dissident is allowed, depending on the magisterial level it is on, And yet RCs do not have an infallible list of all infallible teachings (and the CCC itself is not), or which level each falls under.

In the end, it boils down to the fact that Rome cannot get away from the problem of interpretation, as even the great interpreter is open to some interpretation, but there is not no infallible interpreter for the infallible interpreter. And the things Catholics can disagree on is extensive . What a centralized magisterium can do is set for authoritative decrees, as in what Westminster affirms,

It belongeth to synods and councils, ministerially, to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God, and government of his Church; to receive complaints in cases of maladministration, and authoritatively to determine the same:

And i actually concur that there should be a universal centralized magisterium for basic issues, but Rome became such a corruption of this, both in what is presumed and did, that it compelled separation.

Which, while it actually increased the kingdom of God, yet separation, which is sometimes needful, became the standard when faced with conflict. And lacking the manner of overt apostolic power, with purity and probity, by which the apostles such as Paul manifested that they and their authority was of God, then it is hard to see a body today being an effective universal magisterium. Rome has not the former aspects to be the latter.

[CynicalBear]

Putting faith in Christ alone upsets evidently. I feel sorry for you.

[Arthur McGowan]

And then, at the time of Constantine, the Church that Jesus said would last until the end of time CEASED TO EXIST. It came back into existence in the 16th Century.

I don’t see any place in the gospels where Jesus says His Church will cease to exist for thirteen centuries, and then come back into existence.

[Iscool]

So, since Christ’s Bride is invisible the congregation is a group of invisible individuals. Gotcha.

Kinda...Not everyone in the congregation is in the Bride of Christ...No one knows who they are except God...They are invisible to each other...Only God knows the heart...

Comparing that to the Catholic religion, no one in the Catholic religion is in the Bride of Christ til they die since no one can know where they are going until the final judgment...To think there are unsaved people in the Bride of Christ is ludicrous...You can't get into and out of and back into the Bride of Christ...

In fact, you are all counted as tares until you find out if that slate gets wiped clean and you get saved into the Bride of Christ at the final judgment...

Actually, your religion is so all over the map it can get difficult to pin it down on a single, universal belief...

You claim there are tares in your religion...Do you know who they are??? Who knows who they are??? God??? Or God will sort them out later??? If that is the correct answer, only God knows and the wheat is invisible...If it is the tares and wheat are both visible, then then one group or the other is actually invisible since on the surface, they all look the same....What a mess you got going there...

[Pan_Yan]

I don’t see any place in the gospels where Jesus says His Church will cease to exist for thirteen centuries, and then come back into existence.

There have always been churches that existed outside the power of the church of Rome. They were shunned, persecuted and often martyred but they have always existed.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“And then, at the time of Constantine, the Church that Jesus said would last until the end of time CEASED TO EXIST. It came back into existence in the 16th Century.”

---

Are you trying to claim that Roman Catholicism existed until the time of Constantine, and was not recovered until the 16th century? That be pretty funny, but you’d still be wrong:

Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:

“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)

Augustine on irresistible grace, final perseverance, limited atonement, and whatever else I missed which he touches on here:

“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)

“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)

“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)

“But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, “If ye were of the world, the world would love its own,” He immediately added, “But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for “there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace,” he adds, “then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.”” (Tractates on the Gospel of John, 15:17-19)

John Chrysostom on Sola Fide

“By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the law of faith? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.” (Homily 7 on Romans III)

“For this is [the righteousness] of God when we are justified not by works, (in which case it were necessary that not a spot even should be found,) but by grace, in which case all sin is done away. And this at the same time that it suffers us not to be lifted up, (seeing the whole is the free gift of God,) teaches us also the greatness of that which is given. For that which was before was a righteousness of the Law and of works, but this is the righteousness of God.” (John Chrysostom, Homily 11 on Second Corinthians, 2 Cor 5:21)

Theodoret, Bishop of Syria, on the same:

“The salvation of man depends upon the divine philanthropy alone. For we do not gather it as the wages of our righteousness, but it is the gift of the divine goodness.” (On the 3rd chap, of Zephaniah.)

Clemens Romanus, on the same:

“Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Romans 9:5 From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven. All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (Letter to the Corinthians)

Ignatius on predestination and final perseverence:

“Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace.” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Ephesians, Ch. 0)

“Seeing, then, all things have an end, these two things are simultaneously set before us— death and life; and every one shall go unto his own place. For as there are two kinds of coins, the one of God, the other of the world, and each of these has its special character stamped upon it, [so is it also here.] The unbelieving are of this world; but the believing have, in love, the character of God the Father by Jesus Christ, by whom, if we are not in readiness to die into His passion, His life is not in us.” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Magnesians, Ch. 5)

“Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans. Ch. 0)

“I give you these instructions, beloved, assured that you also hold the same opinions [as I do]. But I guard you beforehand from those beasts in the shape of men, whom you must not only not receive, but, if it be possible, not even meet with; only you must pray to God for them, if by any means they may be brought to repentance, which, however, will be very difficult. Yet Jesus Christ, who is our true life, has the power of [effecting] this.” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Ch. 4)

“Flee, therefore, those evil offshoots [of Satan], which produce death-bearing fruit, whereof if any one tastes, he instantly dies. For these men are not the planting of the Father. For if they were, they would appear as branches of the cross, and their fruit would be incorruptible.” (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Trallians, Ch. 11)