I don't think God 'sends' people to hell, I'm pretty sure they drive themselves there.
God set up the rules, and gave us 'free will' to choose our path. Many choose this path.
The premise is illogical and not just in the “hell” example. What the person is saying is “I could never believe in a God that doesn’t behave exactly how I personally would want God to behave.”
I disagree. It's not a binary. Different Christians interpret the Bible differently on this point.
I think people who say that really mean, “Any God who would create/allow Hell is not good but evil, and you say God is good.”
The Muslims believe that good is what Allah says it is - and that he could say anything. If he decides to say giving alms is evil and stealing is good, it is so.
Suppose the Muslim concept of God and goodness were true, not the Christian one. I suppose most of us would become Muslims to avoid hell, if we knew that was the only way - but wouldn’t the heart you have now cry out against the teachings of Islam, slavery and conquest and murder, cry out that it was still evil?
Even if God did not make a hell, His mercy and justice would demand such a place.
God does not send people to hell. People send themselves there because they do not want to be with God for eternity. They would rather be with the alternative.
Where else is Christ going to put those obstinate folks that don't want to be with Him? The place is called hell.
I’ve been to Hell, twice. Once in Michigan and once in Norway. Both places are quite logical and do freeze over in the winter.
“Hell” to me is being separated from God. It does not have to be literally “Dante’s Inferno” but it does exist in a form where Satan/Devil has hold of one’s soul and thus keeps a person/soul from believing that their salvation is possible through Jesus.
The biblical construct of “hell” is not as tradition has taught.
According to the bible there is a Lake of Fire in which the wicked, the Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil himself are thrown into. (Revelation 20)
The Devil is the only one who will be tormented forever and ever (Revelation 20:10)
The wicked shall be ashes under the feet of the righteous (Malachi 4:1-3)
There is a White Throne Judgement, and those not found in the book of Life are thrown in the lake of fire. The judgment is permanent (forever) - meaning the judgement is final. Similar to when God sealed the door of the ark and the judgment was final on all those who were not in the ark.
Modern American Churchianity has no balance. They are rushing from one erroneous tradition (hell) into another false tradition (no judgment). There is a Judgement upon all - even the Angels themselves. There is a penalty for sin - which is DEATH. Eternal death, the Second Death.
Belief in hell is not a Salvation issue. Believing on Him who can save us from the Second Death, and His death for our sins and resurrection into His life is the Gospel.
That said - scaring people into faith does not produce an anchor as powerful as a people rooted in faith looking forward to the resurrection that Christ is bringing with Him as our reward.
They are not rejecting “God”. Rather, they are rejecting the message. They are saying they don’t believe such a God exists and is a fairy tale.
Interestingly, the New Testament has many clear messages. One of them is the message to willingly come to the Lord. Yet the “eternal torture in Hell” message is clear coersion. It is the equivalent, in human terms, of telling someone to sign the contract or you will blow their brains out. It is called coersion. It is also illegal.
But more importantly, it flies in the face of Jesus’ teachings. I did not become a follower of Christ because he threatened to torture me for all eternity. I became a follower of Jesus because I want to spend eternity in the presence of my creator.
I came to the Lord through desire, not fear. And fear is the opposite of faith.
When was Hell created?
I don't think God 'sends' people to hell, I'm pretty sure they drive themselves there.
God set up the rules, and gave us 'free will' to choose our path. Many choose this path.
“...it would be absurd for you to say, “I would rather go to hell than believe in God.” No you wouldn’t. You don’t really mean it.”
Yes. But pride is a powerful thing.
I think we need more convincing and simpler arguments than this. I understand where he is going but the explanation can be much simpler.
Christ only allows people to live with Him eternally if they knock on the door and request to come in. This first requires the person to recognize that God exists. Why would God allow someone in His home if the person doesn’t even acknowledge God exists?
It’s the person’s choice. The default condition is that they remain outside God’s house (hell condition) unless they knock and request to come in. Each person actually gets what they want.
This is dumb, I have never heard anyone ever say this
Sure I've heard a long the lines of "Even if I did believe in God, I could never worship a God who sends people to hell" but that is not the same.
Atheist don't believe in God because they don't believe he is real and they think the Bible is a work of fiction, it's no more, no less than this.
It's not because of what the Bible says God's nature is. Sure they will use the contradictory characteristics of God in the Bible as evidence that the Bible is fiction, but if there was evidence that the God in the Bible was real Atheist would believe in him whether they worshipped him or not.
1. Hell is eternal because it’s cast into the lake of fire, which is also eternal:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
The Holy Spirit didn’t say “temporary” destruction. That’s the Greek “aionios” meaning “perpetual, eternal, everlasting.” And “destruction” is the Greek “olethros” meaning “death, destruction, punishment, ruin.”
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
2. God is who casts people into hell:
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
3. The author also fails to recognize that the spiritually dead can’t do spiritually logical things:
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Here’s people who see the wrath of God with their own eyes, and yet don’t repent. They’d rather have rocks and mountains fall on them to hide them from God, rather than repent. They’re obviously completely reprobate, damned with no hope of salvation.
This is part of the reason:
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The other part includes such passages as Romans 9.
Your choice for eternity is either God forever or yourself forever. In hell you have yourself forever. In heaven you have God forever.
If you spend your time on earth spitting in His eye a loving God will not force you to spend eternity kneeling at His feet.
People try and try to construct a nice, safe god that acts more like the popular conception of Santa Claus. Something to put on the shelf and assure them they are going to get a pat on the head and a bowl of ice cream after death.
Except that God is not nice. Jesus was not nice. He said some rather not nice things to the authorities in Jerusalem, tore up the temple market, and called them a bunch of white washed tombs (not a nice thing to say).
God is Good. That means something much more than nice.
Absolutely wicked people will burn there.
However scripture teaches that the wicked will burn up and die.
Mal_4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch.
The wicked will be burned up, fully destroyed. It's agree with what Christ said:
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
The choices are: Perish OR Eternal Life. That's what Jesus Christ, God, says.
The word translated perish means that, to perish. To be destroyed fully. It agrees completely with the verse in Malachi.
The other choice is eternal life, to live forever without dying.
Eternal life IS a gift from God for believing through Christ. If we don't have eternal life, we perish, are fully destroyed.
Modern thought has it this way: We ALREADY have eternal life WITHOUT believing in Christ. That's just not right.
Because of this belief the message of John 3:16 has been changed to "I gave you eternal life. And if you believe in me i will give you eternal life. If you don't believe in me I will plunge you into fire and you will burn forever because I gave you eternal life."
That's not what God teaches.