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1 posted on 01/01/2014 3:47:13 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It could be an authentic first century box with an authentic first century inscription, with an authentic 4th century addition to make it more valuable as a religious relic.

After Helen, mother of Constantine announced that she would tour Palestine to research Christianity, there was a boom in creating relics for her to discover.

Perhaps you have heard of the Holy Lance, discovered by Peter the Hermit during the first crusade? Hitler touched it and felt that possession of it was key to his destiny. Recent tests reveal (Iron has carbon in it) it to be a 7th century fraud. As such, it is a relic of something, perhaps the first crusade, but not of Jesus. There is a nail in it that is consistent with a first century Roman nail, but of course there were quite a lot of them out there.


2 posted on 01/01/2014 4:00:37 PM PST by donmeaker (A man can go anywhere on earth, and where man can go, he can drag a cannon.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The experts have long been on the side of this ossuarys authenticity. What I find odd is the refusal to view the inscription like any other ancient inscription.

What’s known about the phrases used by the majority of people who knew Jesus? We know they called themselves “brother”. So the most likely explanation is not that the ossuary contained the bones of a biological relative but rather that it contained the remains of a disciple of Jesus.


5 posted on 01/01/2014 4:15:51 PM PST by Varda
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To: SeekAndFind

This is snake oil that should not be associated with Christianity.

This sort of object idolatry is pretty common in pagan religions, such as fragments of Buddha’s tooth or the like.


6 posted on 01/01/2014 4:16:54 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: SeekAndFind

Of course Jesus had brothers and sisters! The Bible says so!


9 posted on 01/01/2014 4:42:31 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: SeekAndFind

Of course Jesus had brothers and sisters! The Bible says so!


10 posted on 01/01/2014 4:42:32 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: SeekAndFind
Jesus had brothers...

All of the apocryphal books (which Catholics refer to as "deuterocanonical," and were written in the intertestamental period) are in Greek.

Finally, the entire New Testament is in Greek. That is the very precise language God chose for the New Testament.

Now, Greek does indeed have a word for "cousin," anepsios, which is used in Colossians 4:10 to describe the relationship between Barnabas and Mark. Paul, who wrote Colossians, and evidently knew the word for "cousin", did not apply it to James, the Lord's "brother", in Galatians 1:19. Matthew and Luke also wrote their gospels in Greek, and they certainly had a word for "cousin" at their disposal. They didn't use it because it was inaccurate: these were Jesus' real brothers.

But supposing the word “cousin” had not been available to them; would they have used the word “brother” instead? This would not fit the Biblical pattern. I do not know if there is a Hebrew word for “cousin”; if there is, it isn't used in Scripture. Nevertheless the Old Testament writers still did not fail to differentiate between brothers and relatives who were not brothers.


18 posted on 01/01/2014 4:59:05 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: SeekAndFind; a fool in paradise
His name tag (not the T-shirt, silly!) was found in the box.


19 posted on 01/01/2014 5:01:35 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: SeekAndFind

And ... a followup article to my previous post ...

Jesus’ Brothers or Cousins?
By Reese Currie

In articles such as The Truth About Mary, we have quoted verses such as Matthew 13:55 to demonstrate that Mary was not a perpetual virgin because Jesus had brothers. In that same article, we dispelled the argument sometimes advanced by Catholics that these were merely Joseph’s children from a prior marriage, by demonstrating that there was no evidence of other children present during the flight to Egypt.

At the end of that article, there was a question about another Catholic claim, that the Greek word for “brother” is not specific enough and could mean “cousin.” My only response to that was that the Greek word adelphos can only mean brother.

Recently, I had a query from another Internet friend that put a finer point on this question. Apparently the claim is that in Aramaic, there is no word for “cousin,” so the word for “brother” was used instead. I answered that question privately, but it occurred to me that it might be of benefit to all of our readers to summarize some of the stronger points made in that discussion.

The first thing I want to make plain is that the underlying text of the Bible is not Aramaic. God did not choose Aramaic for the language of the Old or New Testaments.

There is a part of Daniel (specifically Daniel 2:4b through 7:38) that is actually written in the eastern Aramaic dialect (as opposed to the western Aramaic dialect that was theoretically spoken in Israel in New Testament times). With that one exception, the Old Testament language is Hebrew.

Interestingly, the portions of Daniel that focus on Gentile nations are in Aramaic, while the portions that focus on Israel are in Hebrew.

All of the apocryphal books (which Catholics refer to as “deuterocanonical,” and were written in the intertestamental period) are in Greek.

Finally, the entire New Testament is in Greek. That is the very precise language God chose for the New Testament.

Now, Greek does indeed have a word for “cousin,” anepsios, which is used in Colossians 4:10 to describe the relationship between Barnabas and Mark. Paul, who wrote Colossians, and evidently knew the word for “cousin”, did not apply it to James, the Lord’s “brother”, in Galatians 1:19. Matthew and Luke also wrote their gospels in Greek, and they certainly had a word for “cousin” at their disposal. They didn’t use it because it was inaccurate: these were Jesus’ real brothers.

But supposing the word “cousin” had not been available to them; would they have used the word “brother” instead? This would not fit the Biblical pattern. I do not know if there is a Hebrew word for “cousin”; if there is, it isn’t used in Scripture. Nevertheless the Old Testament writers still did not fail to differentiate between brothers and relatives who were not brothers.

For instance, Ezekiel 11:15 starts off with, “Son of man, your brothers, your relatives, your fellow exiles and the whole house of Israel...” (NASB). In this verse a “relative” is distinguished from a “brother.”

If you’re like me, and you believe the Bible when it says, “All Scripture is inspired by God” (2 Timothy 3:16a, NASB), you’d have to ask yourself this question: If when God inspired Ezekiel, He was careful to ensure that cousins and other relatives were not referred to as brothers, why in heaven would He let Matthew and Luke refer to cousins as brothers in Greek when Greek actually has a word for “cousin”? That just does not follow logically.

Whenever theologians play these word games to make it appear that the obvious sense of the Scripture is not correct, I am reminded of the verse, “Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers” (2 Timothy 2:14, NASB).

So I hate to participate in these word games at all, but when cultists use them to try to subvert people from the truth, I suppose it has to be answered. I believe the above arguments destroy any notion that the word “brother” is applied in any way erroneously to Jesus’ actual brothers. But there is one other thing I’d like to touch on, which is the outdated assumption that people in New Testament-period Israel primarily spoke Aramaic, an idea that was strongly enforced by Catholic Mel Gibson’s movie The Passion of the Christ.

In the early 20th century, scholars had come to a consensus that the Hebrew language fell out of use as a spoken language in the 4th century BC, having been supplanted by Aramaic. This theory is outdated. There is mounting archaeological evidence that Hebrew was still in use as a spoken language in New Testament times. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, in its 1958 edition, said Hebrew “ceased to be a spoken language around the fourth century BC,” but in its 1997 edition reversed that, admitting that Hebrew “continued to be used as a spoken and written language in the New Testament period.”

One theory is that Israel was a trilingual state, with Hebrew as the main tongue, Aramaic used for communication with others in the middle east, and Greek used for communication with others in the eastern Roman Empire. Israeli scholars are now convinced that Hebrew was the mother tongue in use in Israel in Roman times.

This makes sense Biblically. For instance, on the cross, Jesus said, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” But the people standing there didn’t know what it meant. If Aramaic was the language in general usage, wouldn’t they have known what it meant? (See Mark 15:33-34).

Also, when Jesus spoke Aramaic, it would be transliterated in the Greek and then translated; for instance, at Mark 5:41, “Taking the child by the hand, He said to her, “Talitha kum!” (which translated means, ‘Little girl, I say to you, get up!’)” (NASB). Why bother to take special note of that if Jesus was always speaking in Aramaic?

In Luke 4:14-30, Jesus reads from a scroll of Isaiah, which at that time, was only available in Hebrew and in a Greek translation; presumably Jesus read the Hebrew. Everyone seemed to understand His Hebrew on this occasion, but few if any understood His Aramaic words on the cross.

In John 19:20, Pilate wrote his sign for the cross in three languages, Hebrew, Latin and Greek. Certain Bible versions translate the “Hebrew” as “Aramaic”, most notably the NIV; and while the NRSV translates it as “Hebrew,” it has “Aramaic” as a marginal note. The actual word being translated, Hebraisti, means “the Hebrew or Jewish language” which can technically mean either Hebrew or Aramaic. But there seem to have been no Aramaic speakers present at the foot of the cross, or if there were, they were in such minority as to be unwilling to correct the scoffers who thought Jesus called for Elijah. It is highly unlikely that Gentiles standing under the cross would even be able to make a connection to Elijah, not likely being versed in the Old Testament, so one must assume the people misinterpreting the Aramaic were Jews, who must therefore have been primarily speakers of Hebrew or Greek.

Speaking of those standing at the foot of the cross, this brings up another Catholic “cousins” argument; if those men who surrounded Mary were her sons, why did Jesus entrust her care to John while dying on the cross?

I think that this argument reads an assumption into the text, that the purpose of Jesus’ comments were to entrust Mary to John’s care, when that’s not necessarily clear from what is really being said.

Let’s look at what this says precisely. In the NASB, John 19:26, 27 says, “When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son!’ Then He said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother!’ From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.”

Note that the “household” is italicized; that means the word is not actually in the Greek. The Greek in this case is somewhat obscure; all it really states is that John “took her into his own.” His own what? House? Family? Heart? It’s not abundantly clear. It is highly doubtful to me that this meant John’s actual physical home, because whatever transition took place, it happened “from that hour.” John’s home was in Galilee and this took place in Jerusalem. There is no way that John could take her into his physical home “from that hour.” So I think the proper interpretation is, “from that hour, John took her as his own mother” or “from that hour, John took her into his own family.”

Note that 40 days later, John is found in the upper room in Jerusalem, and he is not Mary’s sole caretaker. Mary is indeed there with him, but so are Jesus’ brothers. Acts 1:13,14 says, “When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers” (NASB).

So, if Jesus’ idea was to take Mary out of the care of His brothers and place her into John’s care, obviously His wishes were not respected. Also, there is not a word in Acts to indicate that Mary dwelt in John’s home. One must assume, then, that this isn’t what the incident at the cross meant at all.

What was really being done here? The Catholic argument indicates that Jesus is committing his mother into John’s care, but what if Jesus is actually expressing His kinship and brotherhood to John by having Mary adopt him? Or is He giving Mary John as a son to replace Himself? (It could even be both.)

If Jesus’ main directive is for John to do something, for instance, “John, look after my mother,” why does He address Mary first? Isn’t He really asking her to do something in relation to John first, and John to do something in relation to Mary second? In a sense, then, He is saying to Mary, “Be his mother,” then saying to John, “accept her as your mother.” From that moment, John “took her into his own,” that is, as his own mother or into his own family. But there’s not a shred of evidence from Scripture that John took her into his actual home, nor that Jesus’ brothers were relieved of her care.

There is no need for all this wrangling to support an erroneous theological position concocted in the dark ages by dualistic philosophers that had taken control of the Roman Catholic Church. The Bible says what it means and means what it says: Jesus did indeed have brothers. His mother lost her virginity sometime after He was born. That’s why the Bible very clearly states that Joseph “kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son...” (Matthew 1:25, NASB). That means Joseph didn’t keep her a virgin forever, but until some time after she had given birth to Jesus. The fact that Mary indulged in sex with her husband after Jesus was born does not in any way diminish from who she was; but to claim that her having sex diminished her, as Roman Catholicism does, is an insult to Jesus’ mother!

Jesus’ Brothers or Cousins? is Copyright © 2006 by Compass Distributors to preserve content; permission is granted to reprint.

Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE®, Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission.

http://www.compassdistributors.ca/topics/cousin.htm


21 posted on 01/01/2014 5:11:21 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: SeekAndFind

They should take it to Antiques Road Show, they’ll figure it out.


63 posted on 01/01/2014 6:14:12 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: SeekAndFind

Anyone care to take a swing at this from The Book of Job?
1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.


67 posted on 01/01/2014 6:29:12 PM PST by ArtDodger
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To: SeekAndFind

The theologian Josef Blinzler, however, in Die Brüder und Schwestern Jesu, found:

“James and Joses (Joseph) were cousins of Jesus, probably of Levitical ancestry, and sons of the “other Mary.” James was the oldest of the brothers, unconvinced about Jesus’ messiahship until the resurrection; Jesus appeared to him then, and he became the leader of the brothers; he also became the leader of the believers in Jerusalem after Peter had to depart (Acts 12:17ff.), and was visited by Paul, who mentions James as a “brother of the Lord” in Galatians. He was not an apostle, since there were two apostles named James, one of whom was designated as a son of Zebedee (Mark 3:17), along with John, and was martyred under Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12:2), and the other was designated as the Son of Alpaeus (Mark 3:18). James was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin when Annas II, the son of the Annas mentioned in the Gospels, became high priest.
• Simon was born seven years before Jesus, according to the chronicles of St. Hegesippus, and chosen as bishop of Jerusalem after the martyrdom of James. Hegesippus writes: “[After James’ death] the son of an uncle of Jesus, Clopas, was installed. All agreed to his precedence, since he was another cousin of the Lord.”
• Judas, like Simon, was a son of Clopas, the brother of Jesus’ father, Joseph. According to Hegesippus, two grandsons of Judas were summoned to Rome about 95 A.D., since the Emperor Domitian heard that they were descendants in the Davidic line. But the Emperor released them when it was established that they were farmers with no troublesome claims to the throne of David. Judas was the author, or “designated” author, of the short letter of Jude in the New Testament (the so-called “Catholic Epistle”).”


74 posted on 01/01/2014 7:46:39 PM PST by franky8 (For the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Jesus didn’t have any siblings. He had lots of cousins and called them brothers and sisters.


76 posted on 01/01/2014 7:55:22 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SeekAndFind
With all due respect; the Catholic Church will never accept any evidence that Mary had other children.

I attended catholic grade and high school, taught CCD for years. I was taught to knee and worship Mary as well as the saints. Catholics today deny the church has ever worshiped her or any saints, but when you knee and sing praises to someone and ask her to do things (which means she has powers to intervene in human events) I call that worship. I was taught that Mary is divine, a perpetual virgin, sinless (which contradicts Jesus when He said we all have sinned) and higher than the saints. We should admire her, as we do Matthew, Luke John,...but we are to only worship God. /p>

When I was in my early 20’s I sought out the truth of God. When I got a bible to read, I was told I should not read it and that only priest have the wisdom to understand scripture. I read it anyway and had my eyes open to wonderful things I was never taught. I know that today catholics are reading Gods word and having bible studies, which I think is wonderful. My point is that we can only trust Gods word and accept his truth rather than men. Gods word is inspired and can be trusted. Look at all the people both Protestant and Catholic who have done great harm. I also think we should not cling to what we want to be true, but be willing to accept Gods truth. It's every persons job to seek Him and His truth. I never believe what my pastor tells me. I look to Gods word to keep him honest. He's just a man.

82 posted on 01/01/2014 8:41:30 PM PST by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.)
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To: SeekAndFind

James Ossuary

"The James ossuary is a 2,000-year old chalk box that was used for containing the bones of the dead. The Aramaic inscription: Ya'akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua (English translation: "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus") is cut into one side of the box. The inscription is considered significant because, if genuine, it might provide archeological evidence of Jesus of Nazareth.[1] According to the Los Angeles Times, most scholars hold the last part of the inscription to be a forgery.[2]"

165 posted on 01/02/2014 7:29:37 PM PST by blam
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To: SeekAndFind

Many non-believers have questioned the actuality of Jesus, saying that no one ever found hard evidence he existed.

No one can doubt that he had family—and it’s a certainty that the family would have been buried in the traditional Jewish fashion of that era.

It seems to me that archeological evidence of this kind is a literal “Godsend” to all Christians.

Anyone wanting further reading on the subject might read “The Jesus Dynasty” by Dr. James Tabor of the University of North Carolina. He was also involved in the initial investigation of the so-called Talpiot Tomb.

Try his website www.JesusDynasty.com


194 posted on 01/04/2014 5:04:52 PM PST by wildbill
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