When is the Rapture ?

Jesus is coming 2016 ^ | current | Jesus is coming 2016

[Uri’el-2012]

Why I believe the Rapture of the Church

will take place between December 25, 2013,

and January 4, 2014

The Lord has been giving me pieces to a puzzle for the last 13 years, leading me to the date for the firstfruits Rapture of the Church. The puzzle ends between December 25, 2013, and January 4, 2014. I very strongly believe that the Rapture will take place on January 3/4, 2014. However, it is possible that the puzzle can end as early as December 25, 2013.

[M Kehoe]

...probably nothing.

Thank the Lord. I was hoping for another few years on this planet. I think...

5.56mm

[M Kehoe]

I think that is Passover.

You think correctly.

Plus, it's tax day in Amerika.

8^)

5.56mm

[redleghunter]

"withholdeth" and "letteth" are the same Greek word and G2772 katechō.

The KJV translates Strongs G2722 in the following manner: hold (3x), hold fast (3x), keep (2x), possess (2x), stay (1x), take (1x), have (1x), make (1x), misc (5x).

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Th&c=2&t=KJV

How did you come about with "hangs" and "hangs on"? Just asking because I was using Strongs as well.

Based on your post what is your take on "only he who hangs on now, until he be taken out of the way."

[roamer_1]

How did you come about with "hangs" and "hangs on"? Just asking because I was using Strongs as well.

I am simply using the common vernacular for 'holds fast'.

My main contention with most folks' interpretation is actually hinging upon 2Th 2:6 : 'And now ye know...'

This is obviously a conclusion... forcing one's eyes up-text to find out what has been revealed. The context above the text in question reveals nothing about a 'restrainer holding back the devil'. To read the passage in it's context (above and below the text in question), the 'conclusion' naturally must be what he was talking about before. And what he was talking about before is the antichrist spirit.

[roamer_1]

and I might add... the text below tells HOW he will be taken out of the way.

[editor-surveyor]

We are presently in the 5th seal period.

Rev 12-14 ate a parenthetical overview. The chronology resumes in chapter 15.

The first seal was opened long ago.

[redleghunter]

And what he was talking about before is the antichrist spirit.

It does but the text is saying 'something' is holding back 'antichrist' spirit and until 'something' taken out of the way. No?

So 'what' is holding back; and 'what' is taken out of the way?

Thanks...

[roamer_1]

It does but the text is saying 'something' is holding back 'antichrist' spirit and until 'something' taken out of the way. No?

I don't think so. Here it is again in KJV:

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

[will let] is an inclusion by the translators (KJV italic). and the 'what' in front of 'withholdeth' is ambiguous (included in katechō).

Since we know that 'withold' and 'let' are the same word, why would they be used in one instance for 'restraint', and in another instance for 'allow' in such a small phrase?

Just above the piece, he is revealing the antichrist spirit. Then he says 'Now you know...'

I think it speaks of the antichrist spirit who is 'holding fast' until he is taken out of the way.

Then it goes on to say how he will be taken out.

There is no restrainer in the passage. If read that way, it is no longer cryptic, and follows the narrative perfectly.

[redleghunter]

and I might add... the text below tells HOW he will be taken out of the way.

Come on spit it out:) I will take a wild guess...Revelation 12:7-17?

[editor-surveyor]

katechō gives the sense that something is on a chain, like a dog on a leash, whose actions are being controlled at the whim of another. If that 'something' is Satan, who presently can do only what the Father permits, when he is thrown out of the throne room, he will be free to do what he will, but that period will be shortened for the sake of the elect, who he will be tribulating for 42 months, from Purim of the year he is cast out, to Tabernacles of the third year in sequence.

[redleghunter]

“We are presently in the 5th seal period”

Please explain.

Revelation 6

New King James Version (NKJV)

First Seal: The Conqueror

6 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Second Seal: Conflict on Earth

3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

Third Seal: Scarcity on Earth

5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth

7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

“Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved.”

[editor-surveyor]

Not much to explain. All of those things are well under way presently.

War dominating world events, famine rampant among the poor, and expanding, while farm land is being gobbled up by pharmakia’s GMO maniacs, Prescription drugs reducing the lifespan of more and more countries, Moslem maniacs mutilating and beheading throughout Africa, and Persia.

What is left?

[editor-surveyor]

And the “White horse” was Constantine and his successors.

[Cvengr]

As one explores pre-trib, one constantly finds issues like this, and has to re-intepret scriptures contrary to there face value meaning.

Funny thing about His re-educating how we think;...we so often read into Scripture what we think it means, until He allows us to stumble into His Word. What we frequently think is the common sense meaning,...once we understand His Word, is completely contrary to what He has been trying to communicate to us all along,...and then we realize He has been telling us everything up front all along,...we were just to scarred in our souls to realize it.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “and then we realize He has been telling us everything up front all along” <<

.
You mean he who disclosed the end from the beginning?

[Cvengr]

Possible.

As always, in these types of verses, if God didn’t tell us explicitly more than He did, then likewise there is a reason for it.

[Cvengr]

That’s He with a capital H, because of His Diety.

[editor-surveyor]

Or you could just call him Yah.

[smvoice]

Regarding the “he” of 2 Thess. 2:7: there is one potential “he” that no one ever speaks of. Because they are too busy trying to make the “he” a “she”. Not according to Paul, though. And if taken as Paul described, the “he” is easily revealed. As is all God’s word when it is read as He wrote it, not as we believe He meant to say.

[jimmyray]

QUOTE: "...we so often read into Scripture what we think it means..."

I concur. Often what we have been taught so controls our thinking, we cannot see the plain meaning of the words we read.

2 Timothy 2:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

When I did an in depth study of the rapture and tribulation, I decided I would put aside everything I had been taught, and simply look at what the scripture actually said, without forcing meaning based on pre-conceived ideas. That is what brought me to the point I am now. Simple reading of the scripture, and Occam's razor. Prior to that, so much in dispensational pre-trib prophecy did not make sense to me, and the reason was it did not make sense, period!

When I coupled that with the teachings of the early church fathers, and about Darby and heretical views of the Plymouth Brethren (whom Spurgeon critisized), as well as Scofield and his notes, I was convinced the whole pre-trib dispensational prophetic view was utter nonsense. I also found that most pre-tribbers won't even discuss the mater logically using scripture, they are convinced they are correct, and spout circular arguments to prove their vewpoint, seldom referring to scripture, and never in context. A few of my favorite "proofs":

* The church is raptured prior to the tribulation because Jesus does not want a bloody bride
* We have to be raptured so we can have the Bema Seat prior to his return
* We have to be raptured so we can have the Wedding supper of the Lamb
* We (the Church and the Holy Spirit)have to be taked out of the way so the world can be given over to the antichrist
* Matthew 24 is written to the Jews, not the Church
* The church is not mentioned after Revelation 4
* The rapture is the "firstfruits" of the first resurrection mentioned in Rev 20:5

and so on... Each one, when investigated scripturally, is woefully unsupported.