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Catholics and Communists
American Thinker ^ | 12/3/13 | Daren Jonescu

Posted on 12/03/2013 10:13:35 AM PST by armydoc

The Catholic Church's recent history of sympathizing with, and even supporting, Marxist progressivism is clear, sad, and indicative of a deeply irrational and anti-individual streak within the modern Church hierarchy. Catholics who care about the Church, its history, and its future -- and also about humanity, reason and freedom -- must stop making excuses for their current spiritual leadership's collectivist authoritarian impulses.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
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Excerpted per copyright requirements. An excellent article. Mr. Jonescu is a gifted writer. Have at it.
1 posted on 12/03/2013 10:13:35 AM PST by armydoc
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To: armydoc

Mr. Jonescu does not seem to have all the necessary information to write an unbiased article on this topic.


2 posted on 12/03/2013 10:40:25 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

Ad hominen. Less than worthless remark.


3 posted on 12/03/2013 10:43:19 AM PST by DManA (rs Jus)
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To: armydoc

The liberal bishops love the poor differently from conservatives and libertarians. They literally believe Jesus when he said, “Blessed are ye poor” in Luke 6:20-21.

That’s why they advocate for social programs, regulations, and taxes that are ensured to make more people poor. Poverty is a blessing, and the bishops want more of it.


4 posted on 12/03/2013 10:47:42 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: Skepolitic

I wouldn’t ascribe motives to them. It’s just that they don’t know what they are talking about. They are just mouthing worn out platitudes.


5 posted on 12/03/2013 10:49:56 AM PST by DManA (rs Jus)
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To: Skepolitic

That’s a great analysis...

too bad leftists can’t be shamed by their obvious lack of reasoning and ability to see the results of their advocacy.


6 posted on 12/03/2013 10:51:32 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: DManA

No, there is factual information missing from that article which gives a wrong impression. Have you not heard that there are dissident priests and lay persons in the Church?


7 posted on 12/03/2013 10:51:40 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita
This has been an unpleasant article to write. But here it is. The Catholic Church is no more defensible than any other institution that continues, against all historical evidence, reason, and decency, to embrace and defend -- whether tacitly or openly -- the politics of mass envy, of collectivist authoritarianism, of coercive redistribution of the fruits of men's labor, and of the practical denial of the basic right of self-determination that ought to be at the core of a Catholic teaching that upholds the dignity of every living soul.

Did you read the article? It is spot on.

8 posted on 12/03/2013 10:51:50 AM PST by USS Alaska (If I could...I would.)
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To: DManA

Last I checked,

thou shalt not steal or covet

are still in there...

And socialism cannot be reconciled with these.


9 posted on 12/03/2013 10:52:11 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: SumProVita
Mr. Jonescu does not seem to have all the necessary information to write an unbiased article on this topic.

I could counter with "you don't have all the necessary information to provide an unbiased rebuttal on this topic", but then I would be doing nothing more than you have- disagreeing with your conclusion by positing ignorance and bias. I have no evidence that you are ignorant or biased. I thought the essay was well-reasoned and supported. Do you have any details you wish to dispute?
10 posted on 12/03/2013 10:53:38 AM PST by armydoc
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To: armydoc; Arthur McGowan
It's fair criticism of a good share of Catholic leaders in today's Church. I think other FR Catholics could agree with much of the points made from reason, rather than the usual vicious spittle from bigots that post every child abuse allegation they can find.

The article does not claim Catholic theology is hopelessly wrong-headed, but rather I see it as challenge to confront Church leadership when they speak in support of what is so clearly wrong in the secular world.

11 posted on 12/03/2013 10:57:50 AM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

It’s rather a straight line, however, from a works-based theological construct, to socialism,
because works based righteousness so easily morphs into advocacy based righteousness.


12 posted on 12/03/2013 10:59:20 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: armydoc
Gee, how did Pope Pius XI slip this little gem past?

DIVINI REDEMPTORIS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON ATHEISTIC COMMUNISM

Also, why didn't Archbishop Fulton Sheen get smacked down, when he stated that Catholicism was Christ and the Cross, while Communism was just the Cross?
13 posted on 12/03/2013 11:00:41 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: armydoc

I’ve been saying this for years on FR. But the puritans disavow evidence.


14 posted on 12/03/2013 11:00:44 AM PST by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: MrB
Envy, or covetousness, is the only emotion that is expressly forbidden by the Commandments. That's probably because envy can be cultivated or wither by one's own will.

And envy is the organizing principle of socialism.

Socialists wouldn't stand a chance with the argument that the State will take the fruit of your labor and distribute it according to the needs of the State. However, many people are attracted by the argument that the State should take the fruit of another's labor and distribute it to them.

15 posted on 12/03/2013 11:01:49 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: Skepolitic

Oh, it’s more devious than having the State take it from another and give it to me,

it’s that I (if I were a liberal) can feel righteous by advocating that the State take from person A and give to “needy” person B.


16 posted on 12/03/2013 11:04:50 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal
It's fair criticism of a good share of Catholic leaders in today's Church. I think other FR Catholics could agree with much of the points made from reason, rather than the usual vicious spittle from bigots that post every child abuse allegation they can find. The article does not claim Catholic theology is hopelessly wrong-headed, but rather I see it as challenge to confront Church leadership when they speak in support of what is so clearly wrong in the secular world.

Agree. I admire the humility of this Pope, and I do think it is genuine. He has shown willingess to be a servant-leader of his people. That spirit, self-sacrifice, is genuinely Christian. That is what Catholic leadership (and all leaders in Christendom) should be extolling. Unfortunately, for some reason he doesn't see the dramatic difference between self-sacrfice/charity and state enforced redistribution. If he did see the difference, and its effects, he certainly wouldn't advocate for it.
17 posted on 12/03/2013 11:07:21 AM PST by armydoc
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To: Dr. Sivana

We can take some comfort that Francis just issued excoriation of capitalism as an apostolic exhortation.

If I understand correctly, encyclicals trump exhortations.


18 posted on 12/03/2013 11:07:38 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: MrB

Well, that, too ... That’s why it is culturally so much easier to be liberal or a leftist. One can feel all self-righteous without having to do anything.


19 posted on 12/03/2013 11:11:21 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: armydoc; Mrs. Don-o; don-o; Dr. Sivana; Tax-chick; Campion; narses; NYer; Salvation; shibumi; ...
What a load of crap!

A priest in the North Korean totalitarian state acts as a marionette for the tubby little third generation dictator Kim Il Birdbrain and that becomes the platform for Jonescu's attack on the Roman Catholic Church since Mr. Jonescu apparently regards Adam Smith or maybe even Ayn Rand as the authors of his personal scriptures rather than Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, and Peter, tyo say nothing of the Old Testament.

The late and unlamented Fr. Robert Drinan, S. J., and Fr. Charles Curran and a handful of others were advocates of abortion but, I trust, Mr. Jonescu does not imagine that the fact that they were not silenced and defrocked and excommunicated or even burned at the stake as in those dear dead days of yore (as I would have preferred) does not make the Roman Catholic Church in the United States pro-abortion. Fr. Drinan, after many years of scandal producing behavior as Barney Frank's predecessor in Congress, was ordered by John Paul II to his face to leave Congress (which he did) and Curran was stripped of his status as theologian.

Pope Francis (not my favorite contemporary pope but pope nonetheless) lived his entire adult life in Argentina where the choices in politics seem to be essentially between Peronist fascists such as Juan and Evita OTOH and faux Peronist Marxists and social revolutionaries against human nature like the Kirchners OTO. Understandably, given the choices available, then Father,Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal Bergoglio, tended toward the imperfect fascist model rather than toward the utterly unacceptable Kirchner model. Try to remember that he is, despite MSM sensationalism to the contrary, a RELIGIOUS leader and not a politician and it shows.

Both of those choices are quite unacceptable to normal American conservatives of a free market persuasion but Marxism and Marxism-Leninism and Maoism and Ho Chi Minhism and Kim Il Birdbrainism are MORE unacceptable and, indeed, totally unacceptable (despite one North Korean priest's idiot imaginings and substitute of "nationalism" vis-a-vis South Korea's often admirable alternative.

That there are child-molesting individual priests (certainly a grave evil) does not make the Roman Catholic Church a church devoted to child molesting any more than the idiot North Korean priest's ravings define Catholicism in North Korea much less anywhere else.

Would more stringent discipline of wayward priests serve the Roman Catholic Church well? No doubt! Catholic leaders and even popes are fallen human beings and probably do a better job at their jobs than would Mr. Jonescu and or anyone sharing his profile as intellectual at large with few real responsibilities in life.

Oh, and conveniently, Mr. Jonescu warns us NOT to rely on soon to be Saint John Paul the Great as a counterexample justifying support of the Roman Catholic Church as an enemy of Marxism just as Ronald Reagan should not be an excuse for supporting the GOP or Margaret Thatcher ought not justify support for the Tory Party in Great Britain.

Mr. Jonescu should be reminded that Saint John Paul, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher are, each in his or her own sphere, the ideal (however imperfect) of what a pope, a president or a prime minister might be. They are the each standards against whom all successors are judged and those successors are likely, in the foreseeable future to fail against such respective standards.

Mr. Jonescu is just another (apparently) fallen away cradle Catholic, favoring his own inner fallacies rather than the accumulated wisdom and teaching magisterium of the Church in which he was privileged to be baptized. That is also the Church which Friedrich von Hayek, Russell Kirk and Frank Meyer entered as death drew near. I believe but am not sure that it was also the Church of Ludwig von Mises.

Mr. Jonescu seems to fancy himself an "American Thinker" by association with that publication but, if the cited article is any evidence, we will wait in vain for him to attain the stature of von Mises, von Hayek or Frank Meyer. If that seems unfair to Mr. Jonescu, that would be because I am applying his own standard to Mr. Jonescu.

20 posted on 12/03/2013 11:12:51 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em, Danno)
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