Posted on 11/30/2013 2:52:50 PM PST by Ripliancum
This why there are so many converts every year.
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Kid Mormonism has one huge hemorage...
more leave and escape from mormonism than are conned into joining...
most of the “new members” are born into mormon families...
the biggest “enemy” that mormonism has now is the Internet...
the actual hateful unGodly words of Joey Smith, Briggie Young, John Taylor, etc are exposed there for all to see...
Who would want to join the KKK or become a psuedo Moslem ???
the sick anti-Christian words of the Mormon leaders are a turn off to decent people..
Let's start with the "better than Abraham did at Sodom." Now there's a standard to measure "missionary" work by!
But ya know, comparing Mormon missionary work, which is often more about initiating conversations than building real relationships, to Christian missionary work -- which is ALL about building long-term relationships is the reason I put the "quotations" around "missionary" in the above paragraph.
To their credit, Mormon leaders themselves often describe missionary work as more "proselytization" (vs. evangelizing). Mormon mishies are more proselyting for converts -- however short-term those converts remain -- vs. really spreading any type of "Good News" (the literal meaning of "Evangel")
The Mormon narrative is that...
...we were all just as eternal as Heavenly Father (living as "spirits")
...but somehow that reality wasn't "enough" -- so Mormons needed to be "born as spirits" to mom and dad "gods" on a planet near the star Kolob...
So, thus far, we have Mormon pre-existent bodiless spirits, right?
So, the Mormon gods send these spirits, the Mormon narrative goes, to inhabit bodies on this planet.
So they were already Mormon spirits in the pre-existence...but now the Mormon gods have to make them Mormons again, eh? (Boy, that's a tough "conversion" process...making Mormons out of people who forgot they were Mormons to begin with)
Then, if that missionary enterprise failed...which inevitably it does given the worldwide Mormon organization comprises such a microscopic percentile command of the world population...the Mormon hierarchy implements its stupendous back-up plan:
Why we Mormon gen authorities just send "spirit missionaries" to the Spirit World, of course!
(UnMormoned, I kid you not...Lds leaders talk about this...based upon a dream that a 80 year old man had just weeks before he himself was to follow close family members in death...see LDS Vision of the dead claimed as ‘revelation’ on Halloween, 1918 [The OTHER World Series: Vanity])
Then -- at about the same time -- you've got Mormon teens doing drive-thru dunkings about 40 at a time not only to try to gain ground on the people who are dying daily around the world, but to make up for the centuries that the Mormon gods failed to place the Mormon church on earth...
...yet because so few Mormon teens are available in comparison to the population totals of all time on Planet Earth...
...not to mention that a great # of people lived with no recorded history of who they were...
...the OVERALL Mormon CONVERSION process is falling behind with every tick of the clock!!!!
Because of these considerations, StormPrepper, you've actually utterly failed to give a proper "overview" of the vast entirety of the "Mormon mission field"...at least from the Mormon worldview perspective! In fact, ratio-wise, the Mormon mission field actually has to do more with the dead than with the living!!!!
Oh, yeah...they've got to go into the "Spirit World" to "proselytize" spirits to become Mormons...
...who've found out for themselves, "Oh, there REALLY IS life after death!" (Wow! How tough is that?) And, perhaps they've come around anyway -- without the help of any given Lds 'spirit missionary' -- to recall, 'Oh, yeah, I DID grow up as a 'little spirit' in Kolobville. Why, my prodigal spirit will just return there.'"
If these once-upon-a-time spirit 'Mormons' don't live as Mormons on earth...
...why, they'll just remember they were Mormons, anyway, eventually...
...all as they were proxy-baptized for...
...becoming eventual spirit Mormons in the Spirit World...
...all minus the "help" of any embodied tie-and-suit missionary!
Hence, hey...Just call off the flesh-and-body missionaries!
The Mormon church just needs to ramp up the Dunkin'-Dough-Nuts runnin' those Mormon temples! Why, that'll be enough to bring all those Mormon prodigal spirits back home!!!
Ask yourselves...
Why would a (now former) Southern Baptist like StormPrepper...
...See Post #43...
...embrace such an outlandish view of "the 'Gospel'"...
...as outlined in post #163???
The Mormon god is reduced to a man who wasn't God to begin with ... and isn't...
The Mormon man is enlarged to be just as eternal past as that Mormon man-who-got-the-God-job...
Stormprepper, why don't you (& other Mormons) worship
Do you think your fellow family members, relatives, & friends who are Christian appreciate you falling for a significantly lesser god???
If ALL...
...(As in 100%)...
...glory...
...honor...
...praise...
...worship...
...prayers...
...adoration...
...belongs to...
I watched a few minutes of a TV show last night...had to find out today what the show even was
...[turned out to be Supernatural...the show created by a Canadian...on the CW network]
...the discussion I briefly heard was where these kicked-out angels were discussing "rebuilding heaven"...
And the subtle crafty character is asked -- when the obtuse other character finally realizes "the plan" -- "Are you going to make yourself God?" And the subtle crafty character says something like, "Oh, I wouldn't call myself that!" & then under his breath something like "at least not yet"...and then proposes himself to be "X".
What the Mormon narrative has done is to dethrone...
ALL: Care to get a peak of how Mormon "prophets" tend to tout this when they get behind "closed doors" at Mormon-ONLY General Conferences?
Then click on this Mormon church link, scroll down about 2/3rds of the way...or just read the excerpt below: Lds.org (Mormon church Web site): The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood :
Excerpt from the Mormon 'prophet' speaking to the Lds faithful:
"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000."
You are correct which is why people are fleeing from mormonism, it is exposed for what it is.
I knew an open minded person once, their brains fell out.
The hand of God was ALWAYS at work in the hearts of believers to recognize, through the Holy Spirit, what writings were Divinely-inspired. If you read in Deuteronomy 18, the Lord gave His people a hard and fast guideline to know what came directly from Him to His chosen Prophets and what was not from Him. He told them:
The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. (Deut. 18:17-22)
Have all the Mormon "prophets" passed the test of the Lord? Has everything they prophesied to come to pass actually happened exactly as they said it would?
But, getting back to your question, the Jews received the writings from the Prophets of the Lord and obeyed God's commands. There was a "canon" of the Scriptures that make up the Old Testament recognized by the Jewish religious community and those books that comprise the New Testament were also recognized by the early Christians as from the Lord just as they did for the Old Testament. The early church's recognition of them is not what made them sacred Scripture, they were God-breathed whether or not anyone received them. God DID lead His sheep to recognize His voice through these writings and we still do, even after all this time.
The only "irrational and convoluted" understanding here about the nature of God is coming from the barely two hundred year old man made religion called Mormonism. Christianity understands what Almighty God revealed about His nature through the Bible. It's all throughout God's word and it takes evil intent to consciously pervert what He said.
You wrote a whole page of logical gymnastics to try to explain away the term "perfected" when it's applied to Jesus. You can't just give a straight clear simple answer because you don't know it or can't because of the implications.
Actually, it was a clear and straightforward answer that included Holy Scripture. I know it and, if you don't, you alone can figure out the implications for why you can't or won't. There IS a difference between "perfected" and "sinless". Jesus did not need to work at being sinless, he was God in the flesh, he cannot sin and it is why he came to earth as a man so that he could give his life as a ransom for many. He was the spotless, unblemished Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. He didn't die for his own sins - because he had none - but for all those who receive Him as Savior.
1. God the Father has a body of flesh and bone.
Nowhere in the Bible can you point to that says this. In fact, in Rom. 1:20: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." God's spirit nature has always existed. He was not created, the Father NEVER had a flesh and bone body. Only the Son of God did when he came to earth as a human baby, conceived by the Holy Spirit into the womb of a virgin - just as ancient Scripture said he would. To say God the Father had a human body is to imply he was created - that He did not always exist as He said - you make Him to be a liar. God is not a man, that he should lie (Numbers 23:19).
2. Jesus is His only begotten Son and also has a body of flesh and bone.
Now He does. But prior to his incarnation, he didn't. He was one with the Father from eternity, before all time and without Him was NOTHING created that was created.
3. The Holy Ghost is a spirit. This constitutes the God Head.
Yes, we agree on this part.
1. Jesus was born as all men are born, through a human mortal mother.
Yes, with the exception that he had NO human father. Mary was a VIRGIN when she conceived. Jesus is both God and man, two parts of his one nature. Each of the persons of the Godhead is distinct, yet they are all each, by nature, God. One God in three persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
2. Jesus had to learn and grow as all people do.
He "learned" by experiencing and his human body grew into a man from a tiny baby.
3. Jesus experienced trials and temptations just like men so that He would be able to understand what all men experience.
Yes, For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Heb. 4:15-16)
4. Jesus had to obey all the laws of His Father just like all men are commanded to do.
Jesus was sinless from all eternity, having a human nature did not remove that part of his attributes. The difference between us and Jesus is that we cannot be sinless, we have all sinned and fall short of God's perfection (Rom. 3:23). For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. (Romans 8:3) We can NEVER be good enough to save ourselves, which is why Jesus came. He did not need to "work out his own salvation" as you claimed, he came specifically for our salvation and had he not come, we would all be damned for eternity.
5. Jesus lead a sinless "perfect" life.
Yes, he did because he was GOD. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (II Cor. 5:21) For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:17)
6. Jesus was "perfected", meaning completely perfect, when He was resurrected and took up His glorified body.
Jesus' earthly ministry was finished, completed, perfected, but he was ALWAYS God and therefore sinless. We sin because we are sinners. Jesus never sinned because he IS God. Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:28-30)
Do you think the Prophets spoken of in Rev 11 are going to be quoting "The Gill's Exposition of the Bible"? If you reject these two prophets as prophets will you still be allowed into heaven?
I'll excuse your petty dig at Gill's - a resource that contains far more Biblical understanding than what you have been dishing out. The two witnesses during the Tribulation will not be speaking to me - though I already believe what they will say - as I will already have been taken up in the Rapture. They will, however, be speaking to people such as yourself who reject the Gospel of the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I hope you won't continue to reject their message as you won't get another chance to change your mind and it will not be a time that true believers will find it easy to be faithful. Come out of false religion while you can. Please don't put it off.
That’s why they cant understand the Virgin birth...
to a Mormon there has to be a sex act somewhere...
Mary and a man or failing that Mary and a Mormon god...
Picture worth a 1k words.
You've rejected one of your own!
How wise is THAT???
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Hey!
Give 'em a BREAK!!
I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from himthat are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to theChristian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invitedto the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
I guess if Catholics and Mormons can get together; then Mormons and others can as well.
http://ce.byu.edu/cw/kierkegaard/callforpapers.php
Nothing like a fellow who has DEEP thoughts to stir up the LDS mindset!
You’ve wandered away from your own thread!
Where ya been since Sunday?
Appears about time for an Elsiethon, complete with the evidence of little Joey Smith as a false prophet.
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