Notre Dame to host Catholic-Mormon conference

Notre Dame News ^ | November 27th, 2013 | Michael O. Garvey

[Ripliancum]

An ecumenical group of religious historians and other scholars will convene at the University of Notre Dame’s McKenna Hall on Dec. 5-6 (Thursday-Friday) for a conference titled “Catholics and Mormons: A New Dialogue.”

The conference will explore relationships among Catholics and Mormons as their churches are increasingly allied in common social, political and relief efforts. Its themes will include “The Lay of the Land: Contemporary Mormonism and Catholicism,” “Catholicism and Mormonism in Historical Context,” “Revelation: Scriptures, Traditions, and Authoritative Teachings” and “Theologies of Encounter, Unity, and Diversity.”

[Elsie]

It's about obeying the commandments of God.

Good luck!

[Elsie]

This is why Jesus had to be baptized. It wasn't for the remission of sin it was because He was commanded to.

I'm quite sure you will show the lurkers where to find this in 'scripture'; right?

[Elsie]

Jesus worked out His own salvation and in so doing He became perfect.

I guess you are right; for this is SURELY among the half that I do not know!

[Elsie]

Will the REAL BYU Religious Education program please stand up!!!

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

Will the REAL BYU Religious Education program please stand up!!!

---

Mr. Millet:

 

I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.

I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from him

that are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.

That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,

 it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.

We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to the

Christian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.

And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invited

to the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.

And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.

And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.

 

The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.

 

He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'

 

And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'

 

He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'

 

And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.

 

I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'

 

But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.

We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.

 

And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.

We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'

 

 

http://being.publicradio.org/programs/insidemormonfaith/transcript.shtml

[Tennessee Nana]

so Stormy

God comes to Earth, takes on flesh as a human baby named Emmannuel meaning God with us, but according to you He was sinful ???

Is that what you are suggesting ???

God is a sinner ???

The LORD Jesus Christ who has always been God Almighty, was sinless, but somehow needed to be “perfected” ???

Have you ever read the Bible ???

The LORD Jesus Christ who is the Word of God wrote the Bible...

Kid, It might behoove you to read what the LORD Jesus Christ has to say about Himself ...

BTW the Name Jesus, Jeshua, Joshua means SAVIOR, SALVATION...

The LORD Jesus Christ is Salvation Himself...

You shall call Him Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins. Matthew 1:21

He did not need to be saved...

Thats a lie from Hell... The Hell of Mormonism included...

Joes Smith and Briggie Young were evil criminals and liars...

They lied about God because they never knew Him...and didnt care to...His Commandments cramped their Hedonous life styles...

They were opportunists merely out for money, women and power over idiots who believed them...

To get to the afterlife you have to sin, to lie about God ???

To break all 10 of the Commandments of God ???

How sick and unGodly is that ???

I’ll PING some experts in the field of Mormonism to instruct you further, lil grasshopper...

[Colofornian]

Study material is just that, study material. It is not required reading. However, the book "Mormon Doctrine" is good study material and I'd recommend it. The Church didn't assign Bruce R. McConkie to create it, it was his own work.

The church didn't assign the apostle Paul to write his letters, either...doesn't make them less than authoritative in ANY way.

Very lame explanation of what your "apostles" FORMALLY & PUBLICLY communicate on Mormon doctrine!

[daniel1212]

He had things He had to do before He would be perfect. ...He is our greatest example. He was born into this world, He worked out His own salvation by obeying the commandments of God, perfected Himself, and took His place in Heaven. As incredible as that is, He did more, He paid the price of justice for everyone that chooses to obey Him because we are not sinless. He paid that price with His own blood.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

You are subtle, i will say that, but there is a world of difference btwn your Jesus, Spirit and gospel and that of Scripture. 1. Jesus was not the Son of a god who was a man who attained Godhood, nor was Christ a man who did the same, but from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God," (Ps. 90:2) and Christ goings forth have been "from everlasting" as the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1)

2. The Son of God did not have to "work out His own salvation or become perfect in nature in order to gain Heaven or become the atonement for man's sins, but rather He was fit for Heaven at all times, even if He had called down a legion of angels to deliver Him before Calvary. But He became perfect in the sense of experience and accomplishment, including making the atonement, and thus provided eternal life on His expense and righteousness.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Hebrews 5:9)

3. Man does not attain salvation because he earned this by keeping the commandments, but instead his faith in the Lord Jesus to save him by His sinless shed blood is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:1-8) and the works he does evidences he is saved, yet are not the actual basis for his justification, but the faith behind the works appropriates this.

Christ "became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him" not because works actually save, which would require perfection, but bcz the "obedience of faith" (Rm. 16:26) testifies to true salvific faith, (Heb. 6:9,10) which God in grace also promises to recompense in recognition of what faith effects, (Heb. 10:35) though believers actually deserved the Lake of Fire.

Thus the elect do not work to the saving of the soul, but perseveringly "believe to the saving of the soul" (Heb. 10:38) in actualization, though this means they will follow Christ, and repent when convicted of not doing so.

These and other differences below:

Joseph Smith in contrast with JESUS CHRIST

Would you believe a religion from a man that

1. Claims to have had visitations by God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son, the angel “Moroni,” John the Baptist, the apostles Peter, James and John, plus the Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah? (Elias in the New Testament is simply the Greek rendering of Elijah, a fact Joseph Smith was ignorant of).

“Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD” (Ezek. 13:7, 8).

2. Claimed that the angel “Moroni” (who is nowhere found in the Bible) told him every single church, without exception, and their essential beliefs (which Mormons build upon) were corrupt? (in which case the gates of Hell did prevail against His church, that of born again believers: Mt. 16:18; cf. 1Cor. 12:13).

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Gal. 6:8).

3. Wrote the Book of Mormon by hiding an occultic “seer stone” in his hat and dictating words?

“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD” (Dt. 18:10-12)

4. Writes in the same book a fantastic and detailed tale of an immigration of Hebrews to South America, which supposedly formed a vast society. Later, after a tremendous civil war, one tribe of this fictitious people is said to have migrated to N. America, even to New York. And that Jesus Christ appeared to these Indians after His resurrection in Israel.

For all of which people and events (unlike the Bible) there is no real archaeological evidence (not even for their weapons). In addition, DNA and other scientific evidence actually refutes it, while the Bible makes it clear nothing of this sort took place (we are assured we have the full record of Jesus post resurrection appearances in the Bible, and in which Jesus went up to Heaven from Bethany, not to return until He comes in the clouds: Lk. 24:50; Acts 1:1-11).

God's covenant promised the land of Canaan (where Israel exists) to Abraham and his descendants, not America: “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God” (Gn. 17:8).

Jesus appeared to His apostles and disciples in Israel (where they could be questioned), not anywhere else: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren [fellow contemporary Israelites] at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [the apostle Paul] also, as of one born out of due time: (1Cor. 15:1-8).

5. Claimed that God instituted an Aaronic priesthood through a decedent of Joseph, completely contrary to the express commands of God's Word. Only descendants of Levi could be priests and offer sacrifices, and even the Lord Jesus, while on earth, could not be a Aaronic priest.

“And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine” (Num. 3:10-12).

“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood” (Heb. 7:14).

6. Claimed that he had more knowledge than all lawyers and doctors, and boasted no man (not even the Lord Jesus) ever did such a work as him in building a church? (Mormon “History of the Church,” vol. 5, p.289; vol. 5, p.467; vol. 6, pp.408-9).

6. Instituted a priesthood that can receive revelations (as needed) that add to and contradict the Bible?

7. Taught that polygamy was acceptable to God and even desirable, and that took multiple wives for himself?

8. Taught that God the Father was once a man who achieved Godhood by being obedient to the “god” over Him? (A. of F., p. 132, 430)

9. Taught that God has a physical body and “celestial wives” through whom He begets “spirit children?” (LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 158, 172; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cosmology#Pre-Mortality)

10. Taught that faithful Mormons will likewise achieve ”godhood,” and can perpetually have spirit children with their wives? (J of D, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866)

And founded a religion (Mormonism), which also

11.Taught that black people were cursed with black skin (1 Nephi 12:23; 13:15; 2 Nephi 5:21; 30:6; 3 Nephi 2:14-15) and therefore (until societal pressure brought about a “new revelation” a few years ago) they were excluded from the priesthood? Brigham Young even stated, “If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (March 8, 1863), "The Persecutions of the Saints—Their Loyalty to the Constitution—The Mormon Battalion—The Laws of God Relative to the African Race", in Watt, G.D.; Long, J.V., Journal of Discourses Delivered by President Brigham Young, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, and Others, 10, Liverpool: Daniel H. Wells, 1865, pp. 104–111, http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/u?/JournalOfDiscourses3,4272 .

12. Preaches “another gospel,” “another Jesus,” by “another spirit,” which false gospel the the Holy Spirit of the Bible clearly warns of and condemns? (2Cor. 11:4; cf. Gal. 1:6-9).

13. Teaches we are not saved solely on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ - on His blood and righteousness - but by obedience to the “Mormon gospel” and Joseph Smith?

14. Teaches we should believe and follow a immoral deceiver, who effectively exalted himself above the Bible and all churches, and who taught a false gospel and multiple fictions, and had a printing press destroyed that would have exposed him (and who soon died shooting back at his enraged killers), rather than turning from sin to God, and trusting directly in the Biblical Lord Jesus Christ, who voluntarily died for us to pay the price for the forgiveness of our sins with His own sinless blood, and rose again in victory?

[Colofornian]

Jesus worked out His own salvation and in so doing He became perfect. But He wasn't born perfect. The choice was His to make.

Indeed he was!

What? Are you claiming that Kolob is full of sinners? And are you claiming that Jesus is a sinner? Really?

ALL: Here is a frank admission from a Mormon. That he thinks Jesus is some kind of a reformed sinner.

[Colofornian]

History of the Church 1: 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight...

OK, ALL creeds are an abomination to the Mormon god?

Tell us then, STormie, WHICH of the dozen segments of the Apostles Creed is "abominable" to Him? Which one? (Just give us a # if you don't have time to explain)

(Oh, & please keep in mind that when #9 was written, "Catholic" didn't mean ROMAN Catholic...it simply meant "universal")

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

[Colofornian]

Which the Lord repeated when He spoke to Joseph Smith.

Except I looked all thru JS - H 1...

There's no reference to "Lord" there...

Nor is there a reference to "God" there...

Nor is "Jesus" or "Christ" mentioned...

How do you know who spoke to Smith...'cause the text doesn't say...and your interpretive conclusion reads into the text...

[redleghunter]

RC universities have long accepted openly gay clubs and activist groups on campus. I remember other clubs losing funding so the gay alliance group could participate in a NYC gay rally representing the school! That was parent’s hard earned tuition money going to a club the RC parents opposed. That is beyond tolerance, that is acceptance. And that was back in the late 80s.

[redleghunter]

Hard at work again I see. Glad I’m on your side:)

[boatbums]

No, it's the same Jesus, you just don't really know anything about Him. Half of what you think you know about Him are fairy tales.

Luke 13: 32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Jesus' own words. He had things He had to do before He would be perfect.

That is one of the problems right there! Jesus was talking about Herod, of whom the Pharisees were warning Jesus to flee Jerusalem because Herod was going to kill him. Jesus said to them:

At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.”

He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!

So, rather than Jesus saying he had more things to do to "be perfect", he was talking about completing his task, reaching his goal, finish his work, He said he would finish my course, attain completion. Jesus, because He was Almighty God incarnate, was ALREADY sinless, he needed NOTHING in order to be made perfect.

Jesus worked out His own salvation and in so doing He became perfect. But He wasn't born perfect. The choice was His to make.

This is where you prove to not know anything about Jesus and what you think you know about him are fairy tales/made-up Joseph Smith invented fairy tales. Stick to the Bible, the word of God, and you will come to the knowledge of the truth.

[Elsie]

Very lame explanation of what your "apostles" FORMALLY & PUBLICLY communicate on Mormon doctrine!

While this is true; it was quite FAIRLDS-like.

[Elsie]

Wrote the Book of Mormon by hiding an occultic “seer stone” in his hat and dictating words?

---

Here are the FACTS...

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

---

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

---

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

---

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

---

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

---

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

Those were the FACTS...

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The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!

 

 

   

                                 

[Elsie]

OK, ALL creeds are an abomination to the Mormon god?

Oooops!!

---

Here is MORMONism's own creed:

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Elsie]

RC universities have long accepted openly gay clubs and activist groups on campus.

---

I'm a MORMON ...

 

 

 

http://www.affirmation.org/

[Elsie]

Hard at work again I see. Glad I’m on your side:)

Don't be on mine; as I could lead you astray.

Be on GOD's!!