Posted on 11/21/2013 11:02:12 AM PST by redleghunter
Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.
(Excerpt) Read more at gty.org ...
How is a person saved TODAY, in this dispensation of the grace of God? Where salvation is based on grace through faith in the finished work of Christ.
We are saved BY GRACE. That is God doing whatever He wants, even though we might not deserve it) through faith. It is a GIFT (a gift is something SOMEONE ELSE gives, because they care about you). It is NOT of works (work is doing something and expecting something in return-or getting paid for the effort expended). The gospel saves (gospel is a teaching and in this case it is a PARTICULAR TEACHING). The gospel is: Christ died FOR OUR SINS, He was buried, and He rose again.
I must believe that Christ died for our sins. If He died for our sins, I must conclude that I am a sinner and that He died for me. Rom. 3:23 states "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." What does sin have to do with my being saved or not? "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 6:23. There has not been a Scripture listed that has said, or implied that you would have to "walk down an aisle for Jesus"; or "pray through until you receive the victory"; or "say you were sorry for your sin", or "repent". Scripture only said that one must acknowledge he is a sinner. And he is saved by recognizing that fact and also the fact that Christ died FOR HIS SINS, was buried and rose again. Your salvation is complete and secured, not by what YOU have done or don't do or do afterwards, but by what Jesus Christ has already done FOR YOU.
Sorry to be so simplistic here, but...
Paul when asked by the jailor “what must I do to be saved” said simply “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved – and your house”. If doing something is a “condition for salvation” then grace is no longer grace”.
100% agree all verses you posted. By Grace through faith we are saved 100% correct. Saved from what? Our sins of course. What does the convicted heart speak when confronted with God's Holiness and knowing we fall short? We confess and repent. The Holy Spirit gives us that godly sorrow which leads to repentance which leads us to confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of our lives.
God must lead us up Mt Sinai to show us we are lacking in order to fully understand the Gift of Grace from Mt Zion.
I can only speak for myself. When confronted with the Gospel I went to my knees and cried bitter tears and called upon God's Gift of His Son's Royal Holy shed Blood to cleanse me of my sins. The Holy Spirit convicted me of those sins and I confessed them all and repented and if there were sins I forgot about the yearning of the Holy Spirit squeezed them out thus making me a new creature. It was not a mathmatical formula of this before that, and then this, it happened and it all happened by God's Work, God's Grace.
So for me repent was not a work at all. By faith in His Grace, the Holy Spirit stuck my nose in my filth and tongue and heart rolled out the sins like it was "This was your Life." Baptism? our first motion as part of faith in action. Some people do it later like I did, but why wouldn't we get in the water at very least to emulate our Lord and Savior.
Of course he taught it, for the Scripture texts i supplied clearly shows this. The souls he told to "turn from these vanities unto the living God," and to repent and turn to God: (Acts 14:15; 17:30; 26:20) were not saved but lost.
This cannot be denied, and thus Paul did indeed preach repentance as a condition for salvation, and posting other texts does not refute this, and are not contrary to it.
For as too often explained, faith appropriates justification, versus works earning it, but faith itself signifies repentance, and thus by calling souls to repentance, to "turn from these vanities unto the living God" and that God "now commandeth all men every where to repent" then Paul is telling them to believe on the Lord Jesus, versus idols and what that basically signifies, not that works or a reformed life saves them. And calling them to be baptized is a call to call upon Christ in faith, confessing the Lord Jesus. More substantial than "say this prayer" though that is the norm today.
LOL, yeah I read it the last time you linked it. Great piece. The folks at that site really like to point out things in an uncanny way. Kind of the knife twist at times:)
Yes we do. Scripture tells us we couldn’t do that without having first been given the Holy Spirit through salvation by grace through the faith of Christ.
>> So for me repent was not a work at all. By faith in His Grace, the Holy Spirit stuck my nose in my filth and tongue and heart rolled out the sins like it was "This was your Life."<<
That is what Paul teaches. The actions follow the salvation which is itself precipitated by the working of the Holy Spirit within us. We couldn’t even call on the name of the Lord without the working of the Holy Spirit within us. Salvation has already happened. Then the repenting etc. Repentance is not a “condition for salvation” but the result of it.
You guys are miles beyond me in this theological stuff so I have to stick with what I read in the scriptures...
As I see it, there was no redemption taught in Acts 2...There was remission of sins, not redemption...There is water baptism required for the gift of the Holy Spirit...
This does not appear to be the same gospel of grace taught by Paul, as I see it...
It isn’t.
"And [pray] for me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known THE MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak" (Eph. 6:19,20). There is a MYSTERY of the gospel. Something that was SECRET until revealed to the Apostle Paul. Meaning something that was NOT known before Paul. The mystery is a truth which was INTENTIONALLY KEPT HIDDEN until revealed to and through the APostle Paul: He says it was "kept secret SINCE the world began (Rom 16:25),..."in other ages..NOT made known,"From the BEGINNING of the world..HID IN GOD (Eph. 3:5,9), "hid from ages and from generations" (Col. 1:26).
Now you tell me, if it was HID IN GOD until REVEALED to Paul,how could it be the same as Peter and the 11 had? Great, simple common sense says it could NOT be the same.
No one ever argued those points. The discussion has been that Peter and the 11 did not preach the same gospel.
At the very least we have to hunt for another gospel and in doing so the results are inconclusive based on opposing scriptures. When something is inconclusive we should not be dogmatic on it as we know all too well others do that.
That is why I do not let eschatology, keys, binding, pebbles and do not rely soley on sermons in a clearly historical book on early believers guide soteriology. The clear and unequivacal evidence is the Gospel is Grace through faith. Period. I believe by Peter’s sermons in Acts and his epistles it shows he preached the same gospel. There is no need to set up a different gospel or dispensation for things to play out in end times the way we think they will. To put up that other competing gospel or dispensation encourages believers to then look at the Words of Jesus and say “they don’t apply to me.” That is not what He said at all.
Please read carefully my post 309.
Same as some who use an altar call. I am reminded of the Billy Graham crusades and as people come streaming forward to proclaim Christ. Same as in Acts 2.
Indeed. Like a tsunami engulfs the shore and takes everything in its path.
It IS the same gospel but a “mystery” was kept from the other apostles until it was given to Paul. That “mystery” was that there is no effort, action, or work that man does or can do without having been saved by grace through the gift of salvation. Man cannot by doing something merit salvation. The 12 apostles had not been given the revelation of that “mystery”. They taught that salvation followed action.
I think we need to change the terminology used. It is not “another gospel” but is an understanding of how salvation is attained by man.
Again, I would say Peter is giving a sermon and not writing a theological document. By Peter going into detail about the resurrection after speaking of the Christ crucified, that is redemption.
As for receiving the Holy Spirit AFTER baptism we do know there were 120 receiving the Holy Spirit before Peter's sermon. That is why we must look at all of the scriptural evidence. When we go to Acts 10 we see Cornelius and his household hear the Gospel, believe, receive the Holy Spirit and then water baptized. When we go to Acts 15 we see Peter say the following:
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Peter tells all assembled he delivered the same gospel he received and preached it to the Gentiles (Cornelius et. al.) If we look at the sermon given by Peter in Acts 2 and compare it with the sermon in Acts 10, we see little difference. We see the same results.
Any other endeavor to say sometime in Acts Paul instructed Peter on the gospel to preach to Cornelius is just not there. Paul is giving a missionary report in Acts 15 before the Jerusalem council not revealing a new gospel.
BTW: Paul calls this MYSTERY of the gospel "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24); "the preaching of the cross" (1 Cor. 1:18), and "my gospel"(Rom. 2:16, 16:25) and "the gospel of the uncircumcision"(Gal. 2:7) and "that gospel I preach amongst the Gentiles"(Gal. 2:2).
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
I think that about sums it up. And did Jesus say "Grace", no He did not because His very Finished Work of His death and resurrection is the Grace Paul writes in detail about. The ACT of shedding Blood, His death and His resurrection speak loud words from the pages of the OT. These were words on the day of Pentecost the Jews there knew. They knew the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53; they understood there is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood. They knew the Psalms of David which spoke of Messiah and resurrection; They knew then what Jesus meant by His reference to Jonah when explaining His resurrection. They knew all this from Peter's sermon, he gave the Jews what they knew, their very own Holy Scriptures. The Son of God the Messiah is there on every page screaming out to them and Peter guided them on target like a lazer on target.
I dare not argue with the very Author of Salvation. He is the sheperd we are the sheep. The sheep hear His Voice and follow Him.
If you compared Acts 2 with Acts 10 you would see little difference. Because there isn’t any. Except that Peter was called by a vision to go to Cornelius. Why would he have needed a special vision if he understood the Great Commission correctly? It would have a no-brainer. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...” (Matt. 28:19,20). You cannot misunderstand that, no matter how hard you try. “What was I that I could withstand God?” (Acts 11:17)??? WHAT does THAT mean,if they were ALREADY TOLD to go to all nations?? Please, tell me.
Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
There you have it. The extent of the grace of God was not revealed until it was given to Paul. Throughout the Old Testament and through the death of Christ action was needed. There were sacrifices, feast days, circumcision and many other rules and conditions. Not until after Christ ascended to heaven and the Holy Spirit had been given was there any understanding of the free gift of salvation through no merit on man’s part. That was the revelation that was given to Paul. The other apostles didn't get that revelation untill Paul told them. That's why Peter said it was "hard to understand". The Jews didn’t understand the change that occurred at Christ’s death and resurrection and many Christians today don’t understand the change that occurred when the Holy Spirit was given. That was the revelation that was given to Paul.
Peter explained that.
Romans 4:1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
He goes on to explain that Abraham was considered righteous because of his faith before he was circumcised. Paul says we are saved by grace through faith of Christ. Not faith in Christ.
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Not faith IN Christ but the faith OF Christ. It’s Christ’s faith instilled in us by which we can say yes to the free gift of salvation. Christ has already done that in us before we could possibly “repent”. That’s why putting repentance as a “condition for salvation” is error. The corrupt nature of man cannot change unless Christ has already done a work in that person.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Christ must be at work for us to even be able to repent and that is a free gift.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Just let go of anything you think you can do and understand it's Christ's work in you. It makes the awsome gift of salvation even that much more amazing. Credit and gratitude is due only to God.
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