Posted on 11/13/2013 3:34:41 PM PST by NYer
Ultra-traditionalist Catholics have openly challenged Pope Francis by disrupting one of his favorite events, a ceremony that he and Jewish leaders led in the Metropolitan Cathedral each year to promote religious harmony on the anniversary of the beginning of the Holocaust.
The annual ceremony brings together Catholics, Jews and Protestants to mark Kristallnacht, the Nazi-led mob violence in 1938 when about 1,000 Jewish synagogues were burned and thousands of Jews were forced into concentration camps, launching the genocide that killed 6 million Jews.
A small group disrupted Tuesday night’s ceremony by shouting the rosary and the “Our Father” prayer, and spreading pamphlets saying “followers of false gods must be kept out of the sacred temple.”
Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, named by Francis to replace him as Argentina’s top church official, appealed for calm as others in the audience rose up to repudiate them, and the protesters were soon escorted out by police.
“Let there be peace. Shalom,” Poli then said, urging everyone to take their seats for a ceremony that was also led by Rabbi Abraham Skorka, a close friend of the pope who co-wrote a book of dialogue seeking common ground between Judaism and Catholicism.
“Dear Jewish brothers, please feel at home, because that’s the way Christians want it, despite these signs of intolerance,” Poli said. “Your presence here doesn’t desecrate a temple of God. We will continue in peace this encounter that Pope Francis always promoted, valued and appreciated so much.”
The Rev. Christian Bouchacourt, the South America leader of the Society of Saint Pius X, said Wednesday that the protesters belong to his organization and that they have a right to feel outraged when rabbis preside over a ceremony in a cathedral. “I recognize the authority of the pope, but he is not infallible and in this case, does things we cannot accept,” Bouchacourt said in an interview with Radio La Red.
“This wasn’t a desire to make a rebellion, but to show our love to the Catholic Church, which was made for the Catholic faith,” Bouchacourt added. “A Mass isn’t celebrated in a synagogue, nor in a mosque. The Muslims don’t accept it. In the same way, we who are Catholics cannot accept the presence of another faith in our church.”
The Buenos Aires Herald has this account:
“A group of them attempted to spill their poison on the victims of the Holocaust,” said DAIA Jewish community group head Julio Schlosser, who was present at the meeting. “It’s very dangerous if we do not all publicly condemn acts like these, everyone, Jews, Catholics and Muslims.”
As the incident developed and the Lefebvrists, mainly youths, were insulted for their actions, Father Fernando Giannetti requested they leave in the name of Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, calling for those in attendance not to submit to “an act of provocation.”
After some minutes of tension, police officials arrived at the Cathedral, although they did not intervene, while Giannetti prayed Saint Francis of Assisi’s Prayer for Peace.
Ahhh, traditionalist virtues on display.
Oh please oh please oh please Lord let that be so. ...the meek shall inherit the earth...
that there is a different understanding of the composition, if you will, of God, is agreed. But we (Catholics, Protestants, Jews) all still pray to the very same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The same one true God.
I have to say I have encountered this denial that Jews worship the same God we do because they don't believe in Christ and it strikes me as a strange approach. Let us consider an analogy. Suppose somebody is talking about their neighbour who another person knows well, and they say "Stan Smith is a nice guy. He is from Pennsylvania, and they are all nice from there." Then imagine the other person says, "No, he is from Ohio, not Pennsylvania." Does this mean that the first person is talking about a different Stan Smith, and their imperfect knowledge of him has created a new person different from the other person? No, of course not. They may have different levels of intimate knowledge about this person but they are still both talking about the same man. And the same is true here. Jews and Christians each worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that means the same God. The Jews are mistaken about some things about God because they have rejected some sources of knowledge, but that doesn't create a new God which they worship.
[21]For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. [22] For neither doth the Father judge any man, but hath given all judgment to the Son. [23] That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him. [24] Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. [25] Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. John; Chapter 5
Pelosi and her CINO Bishop pals get a lot of mileage out of "standing up" to the Catholic Church because two thirds of the scum in their little perverted "paradise" hate the Catholic Church for calling a spade a spade.
Someone in Rome needs to wake up and realize that excommunicating Pelosi and others like her would cut the legs out from under their propaganda stalking horse because "victim" status is not nearly as useful as propaganda as is portraying ones self as confronting the Catholic Church by bravely standing up for perversion, paganism, and populist pantheism
Excommunicating such folks has no legs as a story because those who lap that sort of thing up as showing that the Catholic Church is wrong would just nod and say, "I knew it would happen". Until she's excommunicated, though, Nazi Pelosi can make news whenever she likes by blabbering about "her faith" and why she's right about queers, abortion, contraception, or whatever else she wants some air time about.
JMHO. YMMV
We see the FR Thread Hijack disease running wild!
When a pagan dances around a stick he worships the same God too, for there is no other God. The fact of the Gospel is that Catholic Christianity that Jesus taught is true worship, and should have been the path for Judaism. This did not happen for the great many of the Jewish people, who instead denied Christ and were left with rabbinical Judaism. That is the real difference between the two religions. It is silly to pretend there is some harmony between the two: if I pray in the synagogue that would be because I deny Christ and if a Jew prays to the crucifix then that would be because he is converted to Christ. It doesn't mean we cannot live together peacefully or congregate in order to promote peace between men, but please let us do it in a secular setting. Or else we can have a Mass said for the intention of remembering and mourning the Jews that perished, but then do not invite the rabbis unless they are willing to consider converting.
The denial continues......
This was an inter faith ceremony, not a conference.
Eh, don’t bother. I’ve already been told that “circumstances” have changed, so this no longer applies.
Darn tooting things have changed. It’s like two different religions.
Right. For example, a university could provide a venue, or VFW, or some other setting suitable for interfaith gatherings.
You have all overlooked an important Scripture.
Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to undrstand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in.
Rom 11:25
Paul warns the Gentiles not to see their faith as superiority over the Jews.
and so all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob. And this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.
Rom 11:26-27
Again, the statement that the unbelief of the Jews was an integral part of God's plan to enable the Gentiles to be saved but that when the "full number" of the Gentiles has come in, the "hardening" resulting in the Jews' unbelief, will be removed and "all Israel will be saved".
In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:28-29
Paul repeats that the Jews' rejection of the Gospel - their refusal to believe in Christ - was for the sake of the Gentiles. Their election, the special love that God has for them, and their special gifts remain.
Just as you once disobeyed God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now disobeyed in order that, by virtue of the mercy shown to you, they too may (now) receive mercy. For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:30-32
Once again, St. Paul repeats the assertion that the Jews' disobedience - rejection of the Gospel - was somehow, mysteriously, part of God's plan so that the Gentiles might be saved. He concludes by showing the unfathomable depth, mystery and mercy revealed in God's plan of salvation.
Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?" "Or who has given him anything that he may be repaid?" For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
Rom 11:33-36
As Rosalind Moss, a well known Jewish convert put it: "becoming Catholic is the most Jewish thing a person can do".
From the Douay-Rheims Bible: Romans, Chapter 11
[19] Thou wilt say then: The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. [20] Well: because of unbelief they were broken off. But thou standest by faith: be not highminded, but fear.
[20] Thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: We see here that he who standeth by faith may fall from it; and therefore must live in fear, and not in the vain presumption and security of modern sectaries.
[21] For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. [22] See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in.
[22] Otherwise thou also shalt be cut off: The Gentiles are here admonished not to be proud, nor to glory against the Jews: but to take occasion rather from their fall to fear and to be humble, lest they be cast off. Not that the whole church of Christ can ever fall from him; having been secured by so many divine promises in holy writ; but that each one in particular may fall; and therefore all in general are to be admonished to beware of that, which may happen to any one in particular.
Regardless, I’m still not seeing Bible support for Christians worshipping with Jews (which is what the OP is about).
[26] And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. [27] And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers.
I read it all; and what you just quoted is all about the future.
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