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Questions for "Bible Christians" that they can't answer - Part 2
Catholic Convert ^ | October 27, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

Posted on 10/27/2013 5:25:55 AM PDT by NYer

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. In case you missed it, here is the link to Part 1. Are you ready?

21. Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority?

22. Why do Protestant scholars recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the New Testament canon was officially ratified, but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the Old Testament canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation?

23. Why do Protestants follow postapostolic Jewish decisions on the boundaries of the Old Testament canon, rather than the decision of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?

24. How were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of Scripture, in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc?

25. If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?

26. How could the Apostle Thomas establish the church in India that survives to this day (and is now in communion with the Catholic Church) without leaving them with one word of New Testament Scripture?

27. If sola Scriptura is so solid and biblically based, why has there never been a full treatise written in its defense since the phrase was coined in the Reformation?

28. If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press?

29. If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?

30. If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?

31. The time interval between the Resurrection and the establishment of the New Testament canon in AD 382 is roughly the same as the interval between the arrival of the Mayflower in America and the present day. Therefore, since the early Christians had no defined New Testament for almost four hundred years, how did they practice sola Scriptura?

32. If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?

33. Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

34. If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

35. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." What is the expiration date of this verse? When did it become okay not only to disobey the Church's leaders, but to rebel against them and set up rival churches?

36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?

37. How does a Protestant know for sure what God thinks about moral issues such as abortion, masturbation, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia, etc.?

38. What is one to believe when one Protestant says infants should be baptized (e.g., Luther and Calvin) and another says it is wrong and unbiblical (e.g., Baptists and Evangelicals)?

A Few Bonus Questions

Where does the Bible . . .

. . . say God created the world/universe out of nothing?

. . . say salvation is attainable through faith alone?

. . . tell us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?

. . . explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word “Trinity”?

. . . tell us the name of the “beloved disciple”?

. . . inform us of the names of the authors of the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

. . . who wrote the Book of Acts?

. . . tell us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity?

. . . .tell us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn't infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete)?

. . . that the church should, or someday would be divided into competing and disagreeing denominations?

. . . that Protestants can have an invisible unity when Jesus expected a visible unity to be seen by the world (see John 17)?

. . . tell us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: antiprotestantrant; bible; biblequestions; christians; faith; romancatholicism; scripture; sectarianturmoil
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To: verga; mdmathis6
I told you the truth, you choose to ignore it. It is on you now.

The only thing I rejected was the false assertion that "God did not invent dark or nothing". According to Scripture - which you seem to be ignoring - the LORD says otherwise. Some people's idea of "truth" is whatever the first thing they think of and spout out without doing a little research first. What could have been settled by a simple "Okay, I misspoke." comment at the start would have prevented the deeper hole you are digging for yourself. That you continue to deny your error and pass it off on me, doesn't make you seem truthful. It's been on you the whole time!

621 posted on 10/31/2013 11:18:33 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: terycarl; metmom
but common sense prevails (as my tagline points out)I know that books were an ultra expensive luxury in those days, that there was no paper to write on, that writing instruments were not easily obtainable because nobody needed them, Staples had no store in Jerusalem, don't you have any concept of common sense or reality at all.....it should be apparent to all, based on what we all know what the conditions were, at that historical time, that the written word was available to the masses only by word of mouth.

You're only applying what your own "common sense" informs your opinion. How much study on this subject have you spent? You have yet to post ANY resources that detail the literacy rates or capabilities of ancient people. Have you heard of the Great Library of Alexandria? Here's some info:

    The Royal Library of Alexandria, or Ancient Library of Alexandria, in Alexandria, Egypt, was one of the largest and most significant libraries of the ancient world. It flourished under the patronage of the Ptolemaic dynasty and functioned as a major center of scholarship from its construction in the 3rd century BC until the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC. With collections of works, lecture halls, meeting rooms, and gardens, the library was part of a larger research institution called the Musaeum of Alexandria, where many of the most famous thinkers of the ancient world studied.

    The library was conceived and opened either during the reign of Ptolemy I Soter (323–283 BC) or during the reign of his son Ptolemy II (283–246 BC). As a symbol of the wealth and power of Egypt, it employed many scribes to borrow books from around the known world, copy them, and return them. Most of the books were kept as papyrus scrolls, and though it is unknown how many such scrolls were housed at any given time, their combined value was incalculable.

    The library is famous for having been burned, resulting in the loss of many scrolls and books, and has become a symbol of the destruction of cultural knowledge. Ancient sources differ widely on who is responsible for the destruction and when it occurred. Although there is a mythology of the burning of the Library at Alexandria, the library may have suffered several fires or acts of destruction over many years. Possible occasions for the partial or complete destruction of the Library of Alexandria include a fire set by Julius Caesar in 48 BC, an attack by Aurelian in the 270s AD, the decree of Coptic Pope Theophilus in 391, and the Muslim conquest of Egypt in 642.

    After the main library was fully destroyed, ancient scholars used a "daughter library" in a temple known as the Serapeum, located in another part of the city. According to Socrates of Constantinople, Pope Theophilus destroyed the Serapeum in 391 AD.

    Although the exact layout is not known, ancient sources describe the Library of Alexandria as comprising a collection of scrolls, a peripatos walk, a room for shared dining, a reading room, meeting rooms, gardens, and lecture halls, The influence of this model may still be seen today in the layout of university campuses. The library itself is known to have had an acquisitions department (possibly built near the stacks, or for utility closer to the harbour), and a cataloguing department. A hall contained shelves for the collections of papyrus scrolls known as bibliothekai (βιβλιοθῆκαι). According to popular description, an inscription above the shelves read: The place of the cure of the soul.[1]

    The library was but one part of the Musaeum of Alexandria, which functioned as a sort of research institute. In addition to the library the Musaeum included rooms for the study of astronomy, anatomy, and even a zoo of exotic animals. The classical thinkers who studied, wrote, and experimented at the Musaeum include the fathers of mathematics, engineering, physiology, geography, and medicine. These included notable thinkers such as Euclid, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Herophilus, Erasistratus, Hipparchus, Aedesia, Pappus, Theon, Hypatia, Aristarchus of Samos, and Saint Catherine.

    The Library at Alexandria was in charge of collecting all the world's knowledge, and most of the staff was occupied with the task of translating works onto papyrus paper.[8] It did so through an aggressive and well-funded royal mandate involving trips to the book fairs of Rhodes and Athens.[13] According to Galen, any books found on ships that came into port were taken to the library,[11] and were listed as "books of the ships".[14] Official scribes then copied these writings; the originals were kept in the library, and the copies delivered to the owners.[14] Other than collecting works from the past, the library served as home to a host of international scholars, well-patronized by the Ptolemaic dynasty with travel, lodging, and stipends for their whole families.[6]

    According to Galen, Ptolemy III requested permission from the Athenians to borrow the original scripts of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides, for which the Athenians demanded the enormous amount of fifteen talents (450 kg) of a precious metal as guarantee. Ptolemy III happily paid the fee but kept the original scripts for the library.[15] This story may also be construed erroneously to show the power of Alexandria over Athens during the Ptolemaic dynasty. This detail is due to the fact that Alexandria was a man-made bidirectional port between the mainland and the Pharos island, welcoming trade from the East and West, and soon found itself to be an international hub for trade, the leading producer of papyrus and, soon enough, books.[16]

    The editors at the Library of Alexandria are especially well known for their work on Homeric texts. The more famous editors generally also held the title of head librarian. These included Zenodotus, Callimachus, (the first bibliographer and developer of the Pinakes, popularly considered to be the first library catalog), Apollonius of Rhodes, Eratosthenes, Aristophanes of Byzantium, and Aristarchus of Samothrace, among others.[17] In the early 2nd century BC scholars began to abandon Alexandria for safer areas with more generous patronage, and in 145 BC Ptolemy VIII expelled all foreign scholars from Alexandria.

    Although the various component parts of the physical library were destroyed, in fact the centres of academic excellence had already moved to various capital cities. Furthermore, it is possible that most of the material from the Library of Alexandria actually survived, by way of the Academy of Gondishapur and the House of Wisdom during Islamic Golden Age. This material may then have been preserved by the Reconquista, which led to the formation of European Universities and the recompilation of ancient texts from formerly scattered fragments. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria)


622 posted on 10/31/2013 11:33:34 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Yes, but Matthew is not in chronological order; it jumps around.

What is the basis of this claim?

But the feeding of the 5000 is in all four gospels, thus making it easy to fix it in time. Luke and Mark are perfectly chronological. These two are the best way to associate the events.

Matthew and Mark are fairly similar between the feeding of the 5000 and the Transfiguration. All of the events of Luke happen in both Matthew and Mark; however, none of these 3 indicate the precise amount of time between the feeding of the 5000 and the Transfiguration.

There was no passover in John 6, it was added in 300 or so years later. The early MS do not contain the words of John 6:4.Do we actually have access to proof of this claim?

All should know that Yeshua had to go up for Passover, because he was the lamb, and he had to attend all of the required feasts anyway to fulfill his ministry. Had he missed one he would not have been our savior.

Had Jesus gone up for Passover that year, he would have been killed before it was his time; once the Pascal lamb has been brought into the house, it must be sacrificed. In addition, there had been no profession of faith from a non-Jew; the Samaritan woman of John 4 does not count as she made no profession of faith. In addition, even if she had, it would not have mattered as the Samaritans practiced circumcision. Further, as Jesus was to rest for a day before resurrecting, that day must be Shabbat. Ergo, 14 Nissan needed to be a Friday. Certain Jews had decided that Jesus would be the Paschal sacrifice, but they made this decision in a year when 14 Nissan was not a Friday. Had Jesus been sacrificed on a day other than Friday, he would have rested on something other than Shabbat. Is it permissible to rest on a day other than shabbat? Exodus 20:8 indicates "Six days you shall labor". Exodus 31:17 indicates that Jesus must die on Friday so that he is refreshed on the Sabbath. So the answer is no. However, could God rest on the first day of Pesach? God indicates that rest must be done on the Sabbath because God rested on the Sabbath. So no, God could not rest on the first day of Passover as that was for the Jews, not God. Which set of laws takes precedence: the laws of Shabbat or the laws of Pesach?

You should take up reading God’s word. He says that he will only save a remnant that passes through the narrow gate.

He does not indicate that he will let Satan cover up the narrow gate and bury it into the ground.
623 posted on 10/31/2013 11:47:09 PM PDT by ronnietherocket3 (Mary is understood by the heart, not study of scripture.)
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To: NYer

Have I been taken off your ping list?


624 posted on 10/31/2013 11:57:51 PM PDT by GonzoII (Quia tu es, Deus, fortitudo mea...Quare tristis es anima mea?)
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To: terycarl
Retroactive labeling of the first Christians as “Catholics” won't work with those who know better. Had you actually read my comment, you would know that I was speaking of a collection of all the books written through Divine inspiration called the “Bible”. Individual epistles were sent, copied, taught and preserved from the Apostles to the local churches LONG before an “official” canon was put together. That's why Peter could call Paul's writing “Scripture” and Paul could remand believers to mark those that do not obey the epistles sent to them and to withhold fellowship until they got in line. According to your “history”, Paul couldn't have said that since your church didn't create the Bible until three or four centuries later. Words have meaning.
625 posted on 11/01/2013 12:00:54 AM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

And then there’s the Iliad, the Odyssey, Beowolf, The Epic of Gilgamesh, etc.....

Funny how illiterate people had epics written for them.

List of Libraries in the Ancient World

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_libraries_in_the_ancient_world

People will learn to read and write because they see the value in being educated and WANT to learn to read and write.


626 posted on 11/01/2013 12:27:09 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: ronnietherocket3

The Good Friday-Easter Sunday Question
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2226464/posts

Jesus did not need to die on a *Friday* to be dead on the Sabbath.

He could have died earlier as HE said he would be dead for three days and three nights.

The only reason people think that Jesus died on a Friday is that Pope Gregory screwed up the calendar. There were actually two Sabbaths between His crucifixion and resurrection.


627 posted on 11/01/2013 12:31:16 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: NYer

Just found this thread- way past my bedtime...

VERY interesting thread..enjoying reading- will have to finish over the weekend- but I wanted to just say something for everyone’s sake- those reading and posting here.

Jesus told us that the only way to the Father- to eternal life- was through Him. The entire purpose of Jesus Christ was for us to be saved. I don’t think Jesus would have been coy or cryptic. He does not say the way to salvation is through any specific church. HE is the church. I do not presume to think for a minute that any Catholic is not saved. Or any Protestant is not saved.

No Pope, no pastor, no man has the authority to challenge Jesus. Jesus wanted ALL to be saved. he could have very easily dropped the name of the ONE TRUE CHURCH. OH! He did- HIM! HE IS THE ONE TRUE CHURCH. Jesus was clear. He is the way, and ONLY HIM!

Thanks for the thread! I am sincerely enjoying it.


628 posted on 11/01/2013 1:10:01 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE thatEARTH....Archimedes)
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To: Viennacon

A woman struck “accidentally” is a tad differently than marching into a sterilized room and ordering off the menu of services, one dead baby......

just sayin’


629 posted on 11/01/2013 1:14:57 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE thatEARTH....Archimedes)
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To: ronnietherocket3

Seriously??

A woman struck “accidentally” is a tad differently than marching into a sterilized room and ordering off the menu of services, one dead baby......

just sayin’


630 posted on 11/01/2013 1:17:11 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE thatEARTH....Archimedes)
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To: boatbums

I told you the truth, you choose to ignore it. It is on you now.


631 posted on 11/01/2013 2:49:24 AM PDT by verga (I refuse to apologize for being Catholic, I was raised to think for myself.)
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To: metmom

I told you the truth, you choose to ignore it. It is on you now.


632 posted on 11/01/2013 2:52:08 AM PDT by verga (I refuse to apologize for being Catholic, I was raised to think for myself.)
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To: terycarl
......the overwhelming majority of the people could neither read nor write.......

There you go AGAIN!

Specklatin'!

633 posted on 11/01/2013 2:58:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
who knows???

You sure don't, but it slows you down not a whit in your attempts to bombast your point.

634 posted on 11/01/2013 2:59:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl; narses
OH GREAT, the list of naughty popes again....

I NEVER see you complain when narses posts his stupid graphics over and over.

Just a little bit BIASED; are we??

635 posted on 11/01/2013 3:00:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
...don't you have any concept of common sense or reality at all.....

Now I don't care WHAT others say; this is downright funny; coming from YOU!

636 posted on 11/01/2013 3:02:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
The old testament references are clear TO US, but they certainly weren't to the peopple in those days.....talk about clueless!

Yet you Catholics can't seem to understand the NT and have to take the majority OPINION of a group of MEN called the MAGISTERIUM.

637 posted on 11/01/2013 3:03:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
Again, please use common sense....think, think, think, before you speak.

Likewise...

...think, think, think, before you BELIEVE.

638 posted on 11/01/2013 3:04:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
and the Prottys don't believe it.....sad

Sure we do!

We just don't believe the mackerel snapper spin put on HIS words.

639 posted on 11/01/2013 3:07:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga
I told you the truth, you choose to ignore it. It is on you now.


640 posted on 11/01/2013 3:10:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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