Questions for "Bible Christians" that they can't answer - Part 2

Catholic Convert ^ | October 27, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

[NYer]

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. In case you missed it, here is the link to Part 1. Are you ready?

21. Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority?

22. Why do Protestant scholars recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the New Testament canon was officially ratified, but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the Old Testament canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation?

23. Why do Protestants follow postapostolic Jewish decisions on the boundaries of the Old Testament canon, rather than the decision of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?

24. How were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of Scripture, in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc?

25. If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?

26. How could the Apostle Thomas establish the church in India that survives to this day (and is now in communion with the Catholic Church) without leaving them with one word of New Testament Scripture?

27. If sola Scriptura is so solid and biblically based, why has there never been a full treatise written in its defense since the phrase was coined in the Reformation?

28. If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press?

29. If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?

30. If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?

31. The time interval between the Resurrection and the establishment of the New Testament canon in AD 382 is roughly the same as the interval between the arrival of the Mayflower in America and the present day. Therefore, since the early Christians had no defined New Testament for almost four hundred years, how did they practice sola Scriptura?

32. If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?

33. Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

34. If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

35. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." What is the expiration date of this verse? When did it become okay not only to disobey the Church's leaders, but to rebel against them and set up rival churches?

36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?

37. How does a Protestant know for sure what God thinks about moral issues such as abortion, masturbation, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia, etc.?

38. What is one to believe when one Protestant says infants should be baptized (e.g., Luther and Calvin) and another says it is wrong and unbiblical (e.g., Baptists and Evangelicals)?

A Few Bonus Questions

Where does the Bible . . .

. . . say God created the world/universe out of nothing?

. . . say salvation is attainable through faith alone?

. . . tell us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?

. . . explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word “Trinity”?

. . . tell us the name of the “beloved disciple”?

. . . inform us of the names of the authors of the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

. . . who wrote the Book of Acts?

. . . tell us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity?

. . . .tell us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn't infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete)?

. . . that the church should, or someday would be divided into competing and disagreeing denominations?

. . . that Protestants can have an invisible unity when Jesus expected a visible unity to be seen by the world (see John 17)?

. . . tell us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father?

[ronnietherocket3]

Using the number of fish and loaves an people fed, the parallel of John 6 in Matthew is Ch 14. Succot occurs in Matthew 17 as Peter wants to make booths for Jesus, Elijah and Moses. The feeding of the 4000 (Matt 15:32-39) likely happens around Yom Teruah. Matthew does not mention how much time passed between feeding the 5000 and feeding the 4000.

He does not claim to be saving the masses, but a small remnant to enjoy his rest.

This sounds like a weak unloving god, not a shepherd who would leave the flock to save a single lost lamb.

Finally, Yeshua could not miss any required feast, since a violation of Torah would have disqualified him from the sinlessness needed to be the perfect sacrifice.

And John provides a reason why Jesus did not go to Jerusalem in John 6, certain Jews intended to kill him. As Jesus was the Paschal Lamb, had he gone to Jerusalem with the knowledge that certain Jews wanted to bring him into the Bet HaMikdash; this would set in motion the start of the 4 days at which point Jesus would have to be sacrificed before his time had come.

John would never have called Passover “a feast of the Jews” since he clearly knew that it was a required feast for all the nations.

At that time it was a feast for the Jews, the first Easter had not yet happened. Also, my translation (NRSV2CE) uses the definite article, not the indefinite article. Examining John 6:4 using the Complete Jewish Bible and the Orthodox Jewish Bible, the definite article is used not the indefinite article. In addition, uncircumcised may not eat of the Passover sacrifice (Ex 12:43-49) and the Council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) ruled that Gentiles need not be circumcised. So Passover is a festival of the Jews.

Lots of typical catholic erroneous comments spewing uncontrollably from your keyboard.

Your posts to date come across as being written by a ranting raving lunatic. If the Truth is for a select few like yourself, why are you wasting time on an internet forum attempting to convince us of it? Why aren't you content to tell us, "told you so at judgement day"? If on the other hand you would like to convince us now that you have access to the Truth, why do you step into arguments between one group saying the RCC hates Sacred Scripture and another group that maintains the RCC preserved Sacred Scripture and say that the Scripture we read is filled with errors? Do you maintain that this is an effective way to convince anyone of the Truth? Why don't you post links to stories about this finding of an accurate version of Matthew?

Yehova did protect his word by preserving sufficient copies of the Hebrew original of Matthew’s gospel for the time that it really matters.

Did he preserve sufficient copies of the original of Mark and John? Your various posts indicate your belief that Mark and John have been corrupted and that the true original of Mark might not be discovered. This god you preach comes across as weak and unloving; actually it sounds like the Devil, who is not God.

[boatbums]

Isaiah 45:7 says: “Forming light and creating darkness..I am the LORD that does all these.

yep poetic license is a wonderful thing. that does not alter the fact that darkness is the absence of light. And the darkness we experience is due to(created by) the Earths rotation on it's axis.

"Poetic license" you say? Once again, it appears you have forgotten what your argument was. Mdmathis6 said:

“say God created the world/universe out of nothing?” Question is not phrased correctly....God invented both “dark and light” and he had to create “nothingness” with which to contrast “somethingness”?
The Bible says he created all things...even “nothingness”!

To which you responded:

Dark is the absence of Light, Cold is the absence of Heat, Nothing is the absence of anything. God did not invent dark or nothing. They are the absence of God. God is the source of light, heat and everything.

Your contention that God did not create darkness was disputed by God's very word, itself, when Almighty God says He DID create darkness as well as light.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

Other verses that say this are:

Exodus 10:21-23 And the LORD said to Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

Exodus 14:20 So it came between the camp of Egypt and the camp of Israel; and there was the cloud along with the darkness, yet it gave light at night. Thus the one did not come near the other all night. …

Jeremiah 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before …

Ezekiel 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set …

Joel 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick …

Amos 4:13 For behold, He who forms mountains and creates the wind And declares to man what are His thoughts, He who makes dawn into darkness And treads on the high places of the earth, The LORD God of hosts is His name.

Nahum 1:8 But with an overflowing flood He will make a complete end of its site, And will pursue His enemies into darkness.

Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

Jude 1:12,13 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

In Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, this verse is explained as:

I form the light, and create darkness,.... Natural light, or that light which was produced at the first creation, and of which the sun is the fountain and source; or day which is light, and night which is darkness, the constant revolutions of which were formed, appointed, and are continued by the Lord, Genesis 1:3, moral light, or the light of nature, the rational understanding in man; spiritual light, or the light of grace, by which things spiritual and supernatural are known; the light of joy and comfort from Christ, the sun of righteousness; and the light of eternal glory and happiness: this is all from God, of his producing and giving; and so darkness is his creature; that natural darkness which was upon the face of the earth at the beginning; what arises from the absence of the sun, or is occasioned by the eclipses of it, or very black clouds; or any extraordinary darkness, such as was in Egypt; or deprivation of sight, blindness in men; and, in a figurative sense, ignorance and darkness that follow upon sin; judicial blindness, God gives men up and leaves them to; temporal afflictions and distresses, and everlasting punishment, which is blackness of darkness:

Darkness is MUCH more than just "the absence of light". Mdmathis6 was correct, you were corrected.

[terycarl]

real followers of The Way. There was a real church for almost 300 years before the fiction called the Roman catholic church was created.

you are denying 2,013 years of infallible teaching.....the way???

[terycarl]

The Catholic Church is what happens when a group of people decide that God is not through giving us His revelations. They think it’s an ongoing process, that He isn’t through yet. It’s a dangerous and deceitful game to play.

so.....christianity and its growth ended with the Ascension???

[ronnietherocket3]

Have you read CCC 127? While that link does not cite who said those quotes, my copy of the CCC cites them as St. Caeseria the Younger to S. Richildis and St. Radegunde (for the first) and St. Therese of Liseaux in her autobiography.

[ronnietherocket3]

What happened is God took the talent of one man (Matthew) and buried it in the ground.

[evangmlw]

Perhaps you should consider reading the Bible, where you can find the answer to many of these questions. Other than that, Paul advises us to avoid foolish questions, which would cover those questions not covered within the pages of the Bible itself.

[Elsie]

Darn it!

Henry FORD invented the assembly line!

You should be driving one of HIS cars now!!

[Elsie]

These tiresome “Catholicism is the ONLY way to go!” threads remind me SO much of the current Republican leadership’s attempt to discredit the Tea Party.

(And the Dems (Mormons) are SO happy to continue to prod the bears!)

[Elsie]

scribes were hired to read and write things....get real!

And Jesus wrote in the dust.

What SCRIBE read it to the assembled crowd?

[Elsie]

The above is an example of a “Question that Catholics will spin”.

[Elsie]

you would ignore the fact that the people had been shopping at the competitors store for ????thousand years.

My great-great grampa had the very best buggy whip manufacturing plant in the WORLD! Been in business for CENTURIES!!

But the ignorant, illiterate heathen population bought thousands of mass produced FORDS and he went bankrupt!!!

[Elsie]

... since written copies were virtually impossible to come by...

More blather with NO proof.

[Elsie]

do you suppose that he went to Peter and asked for a transcription of his last sermon??????????????

Nah; that is a Catholic 'tradition'; peating and repeating the 'words of the Fathers' ceaselessly.

[Elsie]

without the Catholic Church, you would have no Scriptures to search.....except maybe old testament ones...

Exactly like the Bereans.

[Elsie]

Exactly like the Bereans.

Who (don't DOUBT me here!) could not read or write.

[Elsie]

the Catholic church brought the Christian religion through the ages....

Too bad it didn't do a very good job at times...

---

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[Elsie]

...the Catholic church is on top ...

Can the eye say to the foot...

[verga]

you were corrected.

Not even close, but thanks for playing our game.

[Elsie]

Did he preserve sufficient copies of the original of Mark and John? Your various posts indicate your belief that Mark and John have been corrupted and that the true original of Mark might not be discovered. This god you preach comes across as weak and unloving; actually it sounds like the Devil, who is not God.

But; do not most ALL Catholics in these threads say one MUST go back to the Greek to 'really' understand the Scripture meaning?