Present Tribulation vs. Future Tribulation

bibleprophecyblog.com ^ | July 6, 2011 | Dr. Thomas Ice

[jodyel]

Present Tribulation vs. Future Tribulation, Dr. Thomas Ice

Over the years I have noticed an argument against pretribulationism which goes something like the following: "The New Testament teaches that we will suffer persecution and tribulation as followers of Christ, therefore, I believe the Church will go through the tribulation." The New Testament does teach that Believers will suffer persecution and tribulation, but it does not follow that because of this the Church will go through the tribulation.

Church Age Tribulation

Jesus clearly teaches that the Church Age, before the rapture and the tribulation, would be a time in which Believers would experience "tribulation" from the world. Jesus said,

"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also" (John 15:18-20).

"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).

It is said of the Apostles in the early Church:

"So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name" (Acts 5:41).

Later it was also said,

"strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, 'Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God'" (Acts 14:22).

Paul tells us,

"For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake" (Phil. 1:29).

Paul wrote in his farewell epistle,

"Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" (2 Tim. 3:12).

Peter noted the following:

"But to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with exultation" (1 Pet. 4:13).

Therefore, there is a clear biblical basis for expecting Church Age persecution from the world toward believers.

Gerald Stanton declares the following about Church Age tribulation:

And one has but to think of Christians being thrown to the lions in a Roman arena, or Christians being torn on the racks of a Spanish Inquisition, or Christians today being put to death in godless Communistic lands to realize that believers have undergone fiery trials down through the years since the days of the early church. Such persecutions with their untold agony, no matter how severe, are nevertheless not "the great tribulation." If they were, one could hardly read Fox's Book of Martyrs without concluding that there have been two or three "great tribulations" every century from the time of Christ.

Down through the centuries, believers have suffered, bled, and died for their faith in Christ, counting it not loss to seal their testimony with their blood. [1]

I have read from various sources that at least 100,000 believers die each year throughout the world in our own day and age, not to mention the various levels of persecution short of death that goes on as well. These are the Church Age tribulations that the New Testament speaks of in relation to believers throughout the entire dispensation of the Church.

The point is that non-pretribulationists believe that future tribulation during the seven-year tribulation is basically more of the same kind of persecution that has been going on for the last two thousand years. On the other hand, pretribulationists believe that the Bible indicates that tribulation during the future seven-years will be something that has never been seen before, it will be the judgment from God upon a Christ-rejecting world. What has been going on since the founding of the Church about two thousand years ago has been the animosity of Satan, his demons and the hatred of the unbelieving world, not the wrath of God.

The Tribulation

The tribulation, which is spoken of dozens of times with various labels like "day of the Lord," time of "wrath," "the tribulation," etc., is mentioned throughout the Bible. Some of the many references include passages throughout almost all of the prophets, the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24:4, 28; Mark 13:3, 23), and most of the Book of Revelation (4-19). That time is referred to throughout Revelation as the wrath of the Lamb or God. Note the following: "the wrath of the Lamb" (6:16); "for the great day of their wrath has come" (6:17); [God's] "Thy wrath" (11:18); "he will also drink of the wine of the wrath of God" (14:10); "and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God" (14:19); "seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished" (15:1); "seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God" (15:7); "Go and pour out the seven bowls of the wrath of God into the earth" (16:1); "Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath" (16:19); "He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God" (19:15).

It is quite clear in the biblical text that tribulation is a time of God's wrath, not of mankind or of Satan. Scripture speaks of some episodes of Satan and the world against God's people, but the emphasis is clearly upon the wrath of God throughout. In fact, throughout the tribulation there is first a fourth of the earth's population that is killed (Rev. 6:8), then a third is killed (Rev. 9:18), and finally, by the end, all unbelievers are killed (Matt. 13:40, 43; 25:31, 46; Rev. 19:11, 16). Obviously, these passages speak of a time unlike anything that has ever happened throughout the Church Age. Kept from the Hour

Clearly the New Testament teaches that the Church will be kept from the time of God's wrath. Paul, in one of his earliest epistles makes note of this fact as follows:

"...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10).

In the same epistle he says,

"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

Paul assumes the much used Old Testament term "wrath" to mean what it does in the Old Testament, which is the time of God's wrath or the tribulation period when God's wrath will be poured out upon the earth. Thus, these two passages, which speak of a future time different than the current Church Age which they were in, clearly see that wrath occurring during the tribulation. Therefore, the Thessalonian believers and all Church Age believers have a promise from God that we will not experience the wrath of God. A similar point is made from Paul's statement in Romans 5:9.

Revelation 3:10 says,

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth."

This promise made to the Church of Philadelphia and thus all believers throughout the Church Age promises that we will be kept out of the time of the tribulation. This passage has very clear pre-trib implications. The "hour" or "time" of testing is what believers will be kept from. Further, the hour of testing is said to be something that will in the future come upon the whole earth. Thus, it is clear that it is not something that has happened during the days of the Church Age, since no one knows of a global testing that came upon the whole earth since the first century. John speaks in this passage of the tribulation period, which is clearly a time in which the Lord will test the earth dwellers (always persistent unbelievers throughout Revelation) and not Church Age believers. The passage makes it clear that the present Church Age is when the Church is being tested and that is the reason given for why we will be exempted from the time period when God will test the earth dwellers during the period we know as the tribulation.

Conclusion

The Bible distinguishes between trials and tribulations that are destined to occur to Believers during the Church Age from the wrath of God, which will be poured out during the tribulation that is intended for the world. To say that the Church will go through the tribulation because the Bible predicts that Believers will experience tribulation is an erroneous statement in light of the Bible's distinction between present and future tribulation. It is also more likely for an American, who has not experience persecution yet, to think that we must, since America has a different history in relation to Christianity than is common throughout the Church Age.

I have often heard Dr. Ed Hindson make an excellent analogy concerning this issue. He says that having the Church, which is pictured in the New Testament as the Bride of Christ, go through the tribulation is like a man taking a girl to whom he is engaged and beating her to the point of near death and then saying, "Hey babe, let's get married." Such behavior would rightly be thought to be crazy. The New Testament clearly teaches that Christ marries the Bride in heaven (Rev. 19:7-10) before she accompanies Him to earth. She is already in heaven since she was raptured before the tribulation in order to experience the judgment seat of Christ during the tribulation. Therefore she is ready, married and victoriously returning to earth at the second coming with Christ (Rev. 19:11-21). Only the pre-trib scenario makes sense of the details, thus demonstrating that the belief that the Church needs to go through the wrath of the tribulation is a false conclusion. Maranatha!

Endnotes

[1] Gerald B. Stanton, Kept from the Hour: A Systematic Study of the Rapture in Bible Prophecy (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1956), pp. 33-34.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “And just how would that “son of the stranger” “join himself to the Lord”, editor?” <<

.
Did you read the chapter?

[editor-surveyor]

>> “sure you do” <<

.
Only if she wishes to spend eternity in the lake that burns.

[smvoice]

Yes. Yes I did, editor. And I’m still asking you that question. With the mutual understanding of course, that Isaiah IS talking about the time of the Millenial reign of Christ, right?

[smvoice]

Let me just tell you this: I cannot seem to talk to you without making it personal eventually. I don’t know why, but that’s the way it is. I don’t want to keep turning myself in for making it personal, and making the RMs post their rebuke, which is fitting, so if you want to continue this conversation, please always include Scripture to back up your claims and answer the posts I make to you, not some left-field observations you have. Agreed? And I will do the same for you.

[editor-surveyor]

No real question here, Yehova has never changed, and never will:

Isaiah 56:

[3] Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
[4] For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
[5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

[roamer_1]

You don’t see the number of problems you have with the above passage?

Nope.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “ Isaiah IS talking about the time of the Millenial reign of Christ, right?” <<

.
Well, it includes the MR, I’m sure, but the promises of Isaiah 56:4-5 have been in effect since the fall.

[smvoice]

That's absolutely correct. But the question is, as I asked before, HOW is it that these people could be saved?

Answer, IF they keep MY COVENANTS, keep MY SABBATHS, and CHOOSE THE THINGS THAT PLEASE ME, God says. Where would these eunuchs and son of the stranger FIND these things? THROUGH ISRAEL. It was THROUGH ISRAEL they would be saved.

This is important. They, on their own, could not approach God. ONLY through Israel did they have ANY hope of salvation.

[editor-surveyor]

Your turn!

Give us the scripture that says that anyone is saved through Israel, rather than holding his covenant.

[smvoice]

WHAT DO YOU THINK I’VE BEEN DOING HERE!! For Pete’s sake, go back and READ the Scripture I posted to you, again!! I’m NOT going to re-post it. (THIS is when I start wanting to make it personal...:) Rule 2. If I’ve already posted something, I am NOT going to re-post it. So KEEP UP! And I will do the same for you.:)

[editor-surveyor]

There is no scripture that says anyone is saved by Israel.

[smvoice]

Go back and read post 822. I’m not going to re-post it.

[editor-surveyor]

Sorry, no cigar!

Receiving blessings by blessing Israel is not a path to salvation. The covenant must be held, that was the path to all.

The covenant is a promise to observe Torah.

[WVKayaker]

Why bother? If those reading this thread can’t see through the bluster, the Holy Spirit isn’t moving their heart.

Maybe it’s time to shake the dust from your feet and find a more fertile field.

Just say’n!

[smvoice]

Who were the covenants made with? They were between ____ & _____. Fill in the blanks. ERGO, the only way a Gentile could be saved was what? To be a part of the covenant promises. And how would he be part of the covenant promises? He either had to go through Israel and become a proselyte, bless Israel, or become God. We KNOW #3 is out (don’t we??). That leaves one or two. Or BOTH. C’mon, editor. Put on yer thinkin’ cap here.

[smvoice]

Is it me? Is it something I’m not saying correctly, or saying that is not correct?!? Help me out, here. I’m in a black hole...!!!

[CynicalBear]

See your pm

[editor-surveyor]

Start with who was to obey the covenant.

Both individuals and the nation were to hold it.

Yehova works differently with individuals than he does with nations. Abraham was a good example of that principle, as was Noah.

At Sinai, he was going to do it again with Moses, when the people made the golden calf, but Moses refused.

The judgement of all individuals awaits the last trump, but nations are judged constantly.

For the alien, the covenant was between him and Yehova.

[CynicalBear]

God gave those in the upper room the ability to speak in other tongues so that they could preach in the language that would be understood by their audience. Those who would try to impress with using language other than that understood by the people they a speaking to are contrary to that concept of the upper room gift given by the Holy Spirit. Those who think for some reason that using some language other than that spoken by the people they are speaking to is somehow more holy or something are more akin to those people who were building the tower of Babel than those in the upper room. Shack the dust.

[WVKayaker]

No,It is not you. You're not in a black hole. Some people are so entrenched in dogma and personal beliefs that they cannot see the forest for the trees. What you have given is absolutely correct, but the argument back to you is based on obedience to the law.

We know that the work of Christ is complete in our lives, and that we are no longer under the law. I am deliberately not pinging the other side because frankly I don't care what they have to say. It does not line up with Scripture and only serves to confuse.

God looks on us as sinners, but provides a protection from that sin. It is the blood of Jesus, and nothing more we can do but believe. He is just and the justifier. I liken it to the morton girl. Our faith is the umbrella and all God sees is that blood pouring down! We can walk unscathed by the penalty of sin...

Galatians 2: 15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”