Present Tribulation vs. Future Tribulation

bibleprophecyblog.com ^ | July 6, 2011 | Dr. Thomas Ice

[editor-surveyor]

>> “And just how would that “son of the stranger” “join himself to the Lord”, editor?” <<

.
Did you read the chapter?

[editor-surveyor]

>> “sure you do” <<

.
Only if she wishes to spend eternity in the lake that burns.

[smvoice]

Yes. Yes I did, editor. And I’m still asking you that question. With the mutual understanding of course, that Isaiah IS talking about the time of the Millenial reign of Christ, right?

[smvoice]

Let me just tell you this: I cannot seem to talk to you without making it personal eventually. I don’t know why, but that’s the way it is. I don’t want to keep turning myself in for making it personal, and making the RMs post their rebuke, which is fitting, so if you want to continue this conversation, please always include Scripture to back up your claims and answer the posts I make to you, not some left-field observations you have. Agreed? And I will do the same for you.

[editor-surveyor]

No real question here, Yehova has never changed, and never will:

Isaiah 56:

[3] Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
[4] For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
[5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

[roamer_1]

You don’t see the number of problems you have with the above passage?

Nope.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “ Isaiah IS talking about the time of the Millenial reign of Christ, right?” <<

.
Well, it includes the MR, I’m sure, but the promises of Isaiah 56:4-5 have been in effect since the fall.

[smvoice]

That's absolutely correct. But the question is, as I asked before, HOW is it that these people could be saved?

Answer, IF they keep MY COVENANTS, keep MY SABBATHS, and CHOOSE THE THINGS THAT PLEASE ME, God says. Where would these eunuchs and son of the stranger FIND these things? THROUGH ISRAEL. It was THROUGH ISRAEL they would be saved.

This is important. They, on their own, could not approach God. ONLY through Israel did they have ANY hope of salvation.

[editor-surveyor]

Your turn!

Give us the scripture that says that anyone is saved through Israel, rather than holding his covenant.

[smvoice]

WHAT DO YOU THINK I’VE BEEN DOING HERE!! For Pete’s sake, go back and READ the Scripture I posted to you, again!! I’m NOT going to re-post it. (THIS is when I start wanting to make it personal...:) Rule 2. If I’ve already posted something, I am NOT going to re-post it. So KEEP UP! And I will do the same for you.:)

[editor-surveyor]

There is no scripture that says anyone is saved by Israel.

[smvoice]

Go back and read post 822. I’m not going to re-post it.

[editor-surveyor]

Sorry, no cigar!

Receiving blessings by blessing Israel is not a path to salvation. The covenant must be held, that was the path to all.

The covenant is a promise to observe Torah.

[WVKayaker]

Why bother? If those reading this thread can’t see through the bluster, the Holy Spirit isn’t moving their heart.

Maybe it’s time to shake the dust from your feet and find a more fertile field.

Just say’n!

[smvoice]

Who were the covenants made with? They were between ____ & _____. Fill in the blanks. ERGO, the only way a Gentile could be saved was what? To be a part of the covenant promises. And how would he be part of the covenant promises? He either had to go through Israel and become a proselyte, bless Israel, or become God. We KNOW #3 is out (don’t we??). That leaves one or two. Or BOTH. C’mon, editor. Put on yer thinkin’ cap here.

[smvoice]

Is it me? Is it something I’m not saying correctly, or saying that is not correct?!? Help me out, here. I’m in a black hole...!!!

[CynicalBear]

See your pm

[editor-surveyor]

Start with who was to obey the covenant.

Both individuals and the nation were to hold it.

Yehova works differently with individuals than he does with nations. Abraham was a good example of that principle, as was Noah.

At Sinai, he was going to do it again with Moses, when the people made the golden calf, but Moses refused.

The judgement of all individuals awaits the last trump, but nations are judged constantly.

For the alien, the covenant was between him and Yehova.

[CynicalBear]

God gave those in the upper room the ability to speak in other tongues so that they could preach in the language that would be understood by their audience. Those who would try to impress with using language other than that understood by the people they a speaking to are contrary to that concept of the upper room gift given by the Holy Spirit. Those who think for some reason that using some language other than that spoken by the people they are speaking to is somehow more holy or something are more akin to those people who were building the tower of Babel than those in the upper room. Shack the dust.

[WVKayaker]

No,It is not you. You're not in a black hole. Some people are so entrenched in dogma and personal beliefs that they cannot see the forest for the trees. What you have given is absolutely correct, but the argument back to you is based on obedience to the law.

We know that the work of Christ is complete in our lives, and that we are no longer under the law. I am deliberately not pinging the other side because frankly I don't care what they have to say. It does not line up with Scripture and only serves to confuse.

God looks on us as sinners, but provides a protection from that sin. It is the blood of Jesus, and nothing more we can do but believe. He is just and the justifier. I liken it to the morton girl. Our faith is the umbrella and all God sees is that blood pouring down! We can walk unscathed by the penalty of sin...

Galatians 2: 15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”