Posted on 08/31/2013 3:38:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
Full interview (roughly one hour) with former Roman Catholic priests Richard Bennett (website: http://www.BEREANBEACON.ORG) & Bartholomew Brewer, Ph.D, author of "Pilgrimage from Rome - A Testimony" (website: http://www.MTC.COM) and former nun Rocio Zwirner give glory to God for their exodus from the Roman Catholic Church & into the glorious grace of the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Description from youtube)
So Catholics don’t trust God after He gave us an earnest that He would follow through on that?
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Earnest
arrabón: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Short Definition: an earnest, earnest-money>br> Definition: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a
security that the whole will be paid afterwards.
http://biblesuite.com/strongs/greek/728.htm
I assure you that I DO believe that God means what He says when He gives the Holy Spirit as an ernest in the payment for us and will follow through without fail. I would call that a gurantee.
So Catholics would claim that it’s a perishable seed that God planted in us when we were born again?
1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Do Catholics say the seal of the Holy Spirit is weak?
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
If the RCC believes that God will not back up what He says I would get out of that organization and rely on Christ alone.
How sad for those who follow the RCC to not know the promises of God and feel that assurance of the Holy Spirit.
But nobody has ever made the effort.
Perhaps there is some official Catholic commentary on the Bible somewhere where those verses are addressed.
It seems that Catholicism doesn't recognize that God WANTS to save us. It's more like they think He's looking for excuses to zot us than to redeem us.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Thank God He doesn't leave me to my own devices, but He protects me from myself. That is security and freedom.
It's HE who works in me to will and do according to His good pleasure.
Amen, Amen, and Amen! I pray that those reading these threads will have the blinders taken from their eyes.
Any good father would do that for his children.
He’s not going to disown them when they fall, even when they deliberately and defiantly say *NO!*.
My children were still my children even when they blatantly defied me. It made the relationship rocky and they had to be disciplined, but I did not disown them or write them out of the will.
“So Catholics don’t trust God after He gave us an earnest that He would follow through on that?”
No, there is no guarantee in that we can’t lose our salvation. We, indeed, can lose our salvation. Hence, no guarantee. If we reject Christ, we lose our salvation.
“If the RCC believes that God will not back up what He says I would get out of that organization and rely on Christ alone.”
It has nothing to do with believing “God will not back up what He says”. It is about those who reject God, rather than about God not backing anything up.
“I am saved and secure in Him, sealed with the promised Holy Spirit as a guarantee of my inheritance until I acquire possession of it.”
Once-saved-always-saved is not an orthodox Christian belief. It is a phony 16th century Protestant invention. Even many Protestants recognize that today. Here’s just one example: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/dan-corner-the-believers-conditional-security.htm
“Does any Protestant act differently then you just suggested the Church acts?”
My question still stands. Can you answer it?
Then you don't have to do them.
SURE they are!
CAn you REALLY not read?
2 Corinthians 4:14
... because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself.
DEAD people get raised.
EVERY one of your 'saints' died.
Ergo; they WILL get raised - EXACTLY like the Scripture says!
.50000
What if you 'reject' doing HIS 'works'?
It never ceases to amaze me the answers and comments we get from Catholics. I’ll repost those verses again.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Notice the words I have in red? Those words should indicate to you that they are referencing those have not rejected Christ. then you come back with “if we reject Christ”? Seriously?
Those who have accepted Christ alone as their savior have been given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as an earnest which means God made the down payment. God will not let go of what He has paid for.
But Catholics say the man does some of it?
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
But Catholics insist that it is something we do and something we do that can get us “unsaved”?
John 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
But Catholics say it’s really not really eternal?
And Catholics surely must not believe this one.
Romans 8:38–39 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Catholics keep telling us that lot’s of things can separated us telling the Holy Spirit who inspired those words that He got it wrong somehow.
Well, I’ve got news for Catholics. You also can be assured of an eternity with Christ by leaving that evil organization which is the RCC and putting your full trust in Christ alone. Simply go before the throne of the Father in Jesus name and ask Him to open your eyes to the truth. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html#ixzz2dskwFPBr
Certainly, and i did not suggest the church acts that way, but stated it as fact. And only those usually referred to as "cult" operate that way, as no Protestant declares that he is infallible whenever he speaks to all on faith and morals, as the pope presumes, nor can he otherwise claim that his interpretation is and will be right in any conflict, so the history is whatever he says it is.
A Prot may assert he is right, but only on the basis of the weight of Scriptural substantiation, by which the Lord and the church established their claims in dissent from those who, like Rome, presumed for themselves above that which was written. Thus Westminster, while upholding the office of the magisterium, yet makes its truth claims subject to demonstrable evidences from Scripture.
Only by listening to a straw man version of SS can Prots be charged with being little popes, and the pope is the epitome of the supremacy of the individual. Who can oppose him when he speaks infallibly?
And as for
Does any Protestant act differently then you just suggested the Church acts? Look at [any Protestant’s] posts [ever]. [They] insist Peter is not the Rock...
Sure, there are plenty who deny Peter was the rock referred to in Mt. 16:18, based on not only on scholarly analysis of Scripture, but of history, and in which we find Catholic scholar of substance concurring.
Let me know when you want them, but RCs are not encouraged to enage in subjective examination to ascertain the truth, as they believe Rome's version, and that (as said) the corporate entity that was the instrument of Divine revelation and steward of it, and inheritor of Divine promises of God's presence and preservation, and having historical descent, is necessarily the infallible interpreter of it. But which is not the case.
"I’ll let God answer that one Himself.
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God "
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No, God is not saying that at all, CynicalBear.
In your mind, does "transforming a thing used by pagans for pagan purposes into a holy thing, used for holy purposes" somehow mean the same thing as "Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise"?
(It doesn't mean the same in the English language. In English," "using something for a holy purpose" means "using something for a holy purpose".)
Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Romans 5:1-11 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
We are saved and secure because God has canceled the record of debt we owe.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Most Catholics clearly don't understand the concept of forgiveness.
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