[paladinan]

BipolarBob wrote, in reply to my post:

2 Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly unto all good works.

Bad translation, I'm afraid; the Greek word for "perfect" (teleios) is nowhere to be found in that sentence. Even in the classical definition of "perfect" (i.e. "per factus" = "complete, made it to the end"), which definitely doesn't carry the modern connotation of "utterly flawless" (which the word didn't always originally imply), it doesn't quite work. The word which your translation renders "perfect" is actually "artios", meaning "equipped". In other words, the translation should be:

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

That's yet another flaw in "sola Scriptura", by the way: it can't tell you whether the original (Greek or Hebrew) "Scriptura" was translated properly, or mistranslated/mangled!

So while Catholics cling to their traditions

Right... we "cling/hold fast to" them, since we obey St. Paul (2 Thes 2:14); don't you want to do that?

and the doctrines of Rome,

The doctrines of the Church established by Jesus Christ, whose mother diocese happens to be Rome, you mean.

that may not be the best course.

You haven't given any reasons that it wouldn't be, friend. I, for one, believe that the best course is to follow the Church WHom Jesus instituted, rather than an ecclecial communion formed by someone who divorced himself from that Church (though the current members of that communion might be innocent and sincere, and ignorant of their position).

Gal. 1-8 but even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Right, indeed! So... how, exactly, do you determine that your "gospel" is not one of the counterfeits condemned by St. Paul?

Not many Hail Marys, rosary beads or Holy Fathers in their recorded conversations.

Well... the "Hail, Mary" is an almost direct quote of Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42-43; and rosary beads are not strictly necessary (one can pray the Rosary mentally, if one has a good head for counting, or one can pray on one's fingers, for that matter; the beads simply make it easier and less distracting); and St. Peter was certainly the first holy father (i.e. the first Pope)--see Matthew 16:18-20 and Isaiah 22:21ff. St. Paul, in fact, also called himself a "father" of the converts he made (1 Cor 4:15), though that's a separate issue (just in case you believed the mistaken notion that Matthew 23:9, etc., forbade anyone from calling priests "father"--you didn't believe that, did you?).

[BipolarBob]

The “Hail Mary” was made when she was actually being hailed. She ain’t here to hail anymore. She’s dead. Dust-to-dust and all of that.

[BipolarBob]

"and the doctrines of Rome,"

I'm speaking, of course, of the contra-Biblical doctrines. Such as infant baptism, use of statues (graven images), forbidding of priests to marry, and Marian worship (under any label).

[metmom]

That's yet another flaw in "sola Scriptura", by the way: it can't tell you whether the original (Greek or Hebrew) "Scriptura" was translated properly, or mistranslated/mangled!

It's not a flaw of sola scriptura.

And you know what? The Catholic church isn't going to tell you when it mistranslates something either. So much for depending on men and tradition.

[Iscool]

Bad translation, I'm afraid; the Greek word for "perfect" (teleios) is nowhere to be found in that sentence. Even in the classical definition of "perfect" (i.e. "per factus" = "complete, made it to the end"), which definitely doesn't carry the modern connotation of "utterly flawless" (which the word didn't always originally imply), it doesn't quite work. The word which your translation renders "perfect" is actually "artios", meaning "equipped". In other words, the translation should be:

Says you anyway, eh??? You're more qualified than the people who translated this word as perfect???

Here's a hint...One only has to read the context to see in what sense the word 'perfect' was used...

I'll stick with the 'perfect' translation...

[CynicalBear]

>>Bad translation, I'm afraid; the Greek word for "perfect" (teleios) is nowhere to be found in that sentence.<<

Oh really? The Greek word actually used in that verse is ἄρτιος artios. Let’s look at what the “experts” have to say.

http://biblesuite.com/strongs/greek/739.htm
artios:
Original Word: ἄρτιος, ια, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: artios
Phonetic Spelling: (ar'-tee-os)
Short Definition: perfect, complete
Definition: perfect, complete, fitted, ready.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=perfect&rc=LEX&rc2=LEX+GRK&ps=10&s=References
Artios fitted complete, perfect having reference apparently to "special aptitude for given uses"

Isn’t that something? The experts say the word means perfect or complete. Now, if God says something is complete would you suggest it’s less then perfect? You really need to do more study before you say someone else is wrong. Makes you look bad when you don’t. Allows people to think that whatever you say has been poorly researched and studied.