Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
You are not on any ping list of mine. Another Freeper put you on the Reply-To list and I copied it in my response. You don’t have to feel obligated to reply.
Dont copied K? sigh
Well, then, Catholic priests are wrong.
Jesus Himself said that nobody offers Him, that He laid down His life of His own accord.
So who do I believe? Jesus or some priest?
Like it’s even a question.
Of course they've done it more than once. They've done it with calling Mary *the mother of God* instead of *the mother of Jesus*
It’s not the HOLY Spirit who is leading the Catholic church to forbid its priests to marry.
The Scripture that the RC’s claim the Catholic church wrote says it’s doctrines of devils...
Amazing how someone can keep violating the RM’s directives and carry arguments from one thread to another.
That's as good as the Listerine one.....
Do not carry disagreements from thread to thread.
I did not.
You are correct. I’ll restore your post and the one quoting it.
Thank you!
The words are of Jesus, genius.
Do they comprise the Body of Christ, as we do?
Is His Body divided?
If His body be not divided why pray to any other name?
Acts 4:12 [Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament]
And salvation is in no one else for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
We ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, just as we ask the saints on earth to pray for us. We're all part of the Body of Christ.
That's what Catholics mean by "praying to the saints." It doesn't mean that we're worshiping them.
Revelation 5:8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of Gods people.
Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all Gods people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of Gods people, went up before God from the angels hand.
But instead, gave answer to the one which you had asked yourself.
I guess I don't understand your question.
Anyway, I presented a couple of Scripture verses indicating the angels and saints in heaven presenting our prayers to God. What do you make of those verses?
Catholics believe that we can ask the angels and saints to pray for us, and that they can present our prayers to God.
in regards to;
If His body be not divided why pray to any other name?
as that relates to the the rest of the subject matter, then addressing prayers to any other than to the One true God is to answer your own previous
If you not understand me thus far, then what I make of those passages in Revelation could only best be communicated by pointing out that the prayers of all Gods people as spoken of there, were not said to have been initially addressed to those whom then presented those prayers ---->to God.
Prayers offered up to some other name first ---then brought to His feet? That risks insulting His Holiness and omniscience much as second best offerings rather than first-fruits sacrifice.
The confusion over the term "praying to" stems from the old English term, meaning "to ask." It's hundreds of years old. So "praying to the saints" simply means "asking the saints;" asking the saints to pray for us.
Would not God hear those prayers if they were heard in heaven?
Or is [yet] His body divided?
You asked that above question of another (lacking the [yet]), Can you not answer it yourself?
Rev 22:8-9 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
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