Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Still “spamming” means something different: sending the same message to great many people who did not ask for it, at zero cost to the sender. I reject that characterization of my posts.
I think I was clear on that from the beginning: the Church teaches even today, under the leadership of the Holy Ghost. We need not look for the Holy Scripture to sanction every form of liturgical expression, including prayer to saints and with saints. Further, there are new saints glorified every year, and each one comes with his or her unique story. The Assumption of Our Lady is her unique story; it is absurd to expect any of the lives of the saints to be found in the scripture. What I do show is that the lessons of the Gospel should logically lead us to veneration of saints, and they have.
..and her/his own recipe, it seems.
I didn't forget in the book; here is the part treating this issue, from the book:
It is then those capable of judgment that St. Pall calls “saints”, and he urges those in need of judgment to themselves become capable of judgment, -- become saints. This thought is developed further in the letter: “Why do you not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?” So St. Paul tells the Corinthians to, first, bring their disputes to the ecclesial court of “saints” and then points out that saints are self-judging because they are glad to suffer injustice; indeed they do for some of them apparently are “despised in the church” (verse 4). Good advice; and on our topic of Pauline terminology, we understand that Pauline “saints” are a select group among the parishioners in the church.This is the part I removed from the quote in 1633 for brevity, -- note the ellipsis there.
1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
Transliteration: hagios
Phonetic Spelling: (hag'-ee-os)
Short Definition: set apart, holy, sacred
Definition: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred
[http://biblesuite.com/strongs/greek/40.htm]
So you would tell us that all believers are not “set apart”, Holy, and sacred?
Then let’s look at the verse you tried to say “reveals an ecclesial court of peers where select parishioners are asked to judge other parishioners”.
1 Corinthians 6:1. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
So we see there that he is talking to all the believers in Corinth. Then in verse two he says this.
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?
And that is where you claim he is talking to “an ecclesial court of peer” right? But lets go on in that verse again remembering that he is talking to all the believers in Corinth. Unless of course you claim hat those “ecclesial court of peers” were the only ones he was talking to and were the ones who he says in the previous chapter “there is fornication among you”. I think we can agree that he was talking to all the believers there. So let’s go on. Now remember he has just said “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world”? Now look what he says.
3 and if the world shall be judged by you.
So, he was talking to the all the believes at Corinth saying “the world shall be judged by you”. Notice, the saints shall judge the world” and followed by “shall be judged by you”.
Just to repeat. He was calling all the believers in Corinth saints. That cannot be refuted. Your contention that he was talking to “reveals an ecclesial court of peers where select parishioners are asked to judge other parishioners” is clearly in error. All believes are called saints. The RCC hierarchical power grab really needs to be exposed.
No you haven’t and the Holy Spirit clearly stated through Paul that if it wasn’t taught by them it should be considered “another gospel”.
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
You sir, are preaching “another gospel” per the Holy Spirit as revealed to Paul.
or maybe a cello...
Yuh dew iffn yah want a Catholic to even possibly consider responding to your hairyettical ravens!
Which further refutes your contention because even they because they are part of that assembly are considered saints and “shall judge the world”. Your contention falls flat and is in error at every level.
Please, for you eternal good, stop preaching “another gospel”.
I’m fixin ta co-rect as wee cunversin heer.
No; you didn't.
You made a LOT of assumptions and tried to pass them off as factual.
You'll also fall by them.
Uh... I'd venture a guess and say that he don't want to be wasting time doing all of the extraneous Catholic thingies.
Uh... ok... but...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ
Some have been in the oven TOO long - others are half-baked.
One way I see it is I was searching for God, and I found him...Some people are looking for religion...And they found that...
And as they learned from Simon Magus, they do what they can to mimic Christianity...And the poor saps in the pews don't know the difference...
You must stand under them because they won't stand on their own...
bflr
So your understanding is completely wrong...Contrary to your religion's position, Paul not only knew but taught that not all those in the church building at Corinth or Rome were necessarily saved (saints)...And again in opposition to your religion, Paul knew and taught that those in the church (the body of Christ) are all saved saints...No chaff mixed with the wheat as you guys claim in the Catholic religion...
Easy, the TRUE Gospel never says that we MUST excel in good works in order to be saved like Catholicism teaches. No one denies that God desires us to be a light to the world and that He enables us to live a life pleasing to Him, just that nothing we do contributes to our justification which is by faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone. Perhaps if one day the Lord opens your eyes to the truth you will understand this.
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