Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28

August 15, 2013 | Annalex

[annalex]

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source

Note that there is no condemnation here, not even asking the woman to stop; the "yea rather" (μενουνγε) is not a negation. It is used other times in the New Testament without a hint of negation. In Philippians 3:8 "αλλα μενουνγε και ηγουμαι παντα ζημιαν ειναι", "Furthermore I count all things to be but loss" (Textus Receptus 1550/1894, Byzantine/Majority Text 2000 has here "αλλα μεν ουν και ηγουμαι…" which is the same word morphology spelled separately and colliding affirmative "γε" with the following "και"). Romans 9:20 "μενουνγε ω ανθρωπε συ τις ει ο ανταποκρινομενος τω θεω" and Romans 10:18 "μενουνγε εις πασαν την γην εξηλθεν ο φθογγος αυτων" use the word reinforcing the subsequent statement. Some translations obscure this linguistic fact: in King James for example, the same word is rendered correctly, "yea rather" in Luke 11:28, wholly incongruously, "nay but" in Romans 9:20, but in Romans 10:18 the translation is again correct, "Yes verily". NRSV has both correct and elegant translations for all three. (See The Holy Mother and the "ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ")

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.

[CynicalBear]

Whoa! The Catholic Bible interpreted it wrong too? Say it ain’t so!!! I sense double speak coming up.

[Iscool]

Whoa! The Catholic Bible interpreted it wrong too? Say it ain’t so!!! I sense double speak coming up.

Worse than that...Peter couldn't even remember what the Holy Spirit brought to his remembrance...Maybe the Holy Spirit got it wrong...

You'd think that at some point they'd give up and admit that God is right and they are wrong...But nope...

[smvoice]

You’d think, but that’s what our side does. We aren’t mesmerized by shiny objects and perfumed candles. We are impressed by God’s Word, not man’s pretty art or long diatribes on mans inhumanity to man. THere’s always hope,though. And prayer.

[HarleyD]

Thanks for that post. It's reassuring to read someone who clearly understand. What is amazing to me is people see (at least so they say) someone pop up and they assume that it's Mary. Even if a gorgeous blond in a blue dress just

POPPED!

in front of you, how on earth would you know it was Mary? After all no one ever seen her. Then again, if this person said, "Hey, howdy-do. I'm Mary mother of Jesus and I was in the neighborhood and just thought I drop by.", would you really believe it?

The girls at Fatima saw someone that looked like their statues in the churches in the village. That should give one pause-especially since she didn't look like the black Madonna in Poland.

[smvoice]

That is exactly the point, Harley. How do they KNOW that what they are seeing is from God? Do they just FEEL like it’s Mary because she LOOKS like one of their statues? And how about Christ on the Cross? It appeals to the 5 outward man senses. God told us to put no confidence on the outward man. It is the INWARD man that is renewed day by day. You would think that would settle the question.

[metmom]

placemarker

[Elsie]

OK...

[Elsie]

We’ve all been there at one time as well.

[CynicalBear]

I actually had a FRoman Catholic on this forum tell me that if he was told Jesus was in the park he would rush over there. I figured at that point it was not much sense discussing anything with him.

[Elsie]

I prefer stripes.

Then self flagellation is just the thing for you!

I hear it's REALLY big in some parts of the world.

[Elsie]

Just remember; I’m the cute one.

[Elsie]

Veneration of saints does not constitute another gospel because it is fully compatible with the gospel.

Sure it is: the Reformed Gospel®.

[Elsie]

We discussed that before.

We sure did; but you seem to have forgotten that they are still dead.

I dectect a trace, perhaps more, of Zombiphilia.

[Elsie]

In short, the idea that every Christian is a “saint” according to how St. Paul used the word is another Protestant hoax.

Shout louder.

Perhaps your god is persuing, or maybe traveling.

[Elsie]

I disagree.

I don't - I KNOW better!

[Elsie]

Others are just a sputtering fuse...

[smvoice]

lol!sadly. “Know when to walk away, know when to run...”

[Elsie]

Don't you realize other people read your posts as well???

If they do it out loud; then they might have to wash their mouth out with soap afterward.

[Elsie]

Just a simple word change here or there and vuala you have deception.

Hey big boy...

Wanna see my uvula?

[Elsie]

Then again, if this person said, "Hey, howdy-do. I'm Mary mother of Jesus and I was in the neighborhood and just thought I drop by.", would you really believe it?

Why; it's really simple.

For instance...

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound.

When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air.

One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!