Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28

August 15, 2013 | Annalex

[annalex]

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source

Note that there is no condemnation here, not even asking the woman to stop; the "yea rather" (μενουνγε) is not a negation. It is used other times in the New Testament without a hint of negation. In Philippians 3:8 "αλλα μενουνγε και ηγουμαι παντα ζημιαν ειναι", "Furthermore I count all things to be but loss" (Textus Receptus 1550/1894, Byzantine/Majority Text 2000 has here "αλλα μεν ουν και ηγουμαι…" which is the same word morphology spelled separately and colliding affirmative "γε" with the following "και"). Romans 9:20 "μενουνγε ω ανθρωπε συ τις ει ο ανταποκρινομενος τω θεω" and Romans 10:18 "μενουνγε εις πασαν την γην εξηλθεν ο φθογγος αυτων" use the word reinforcing the subsequent statement. Some translations obscure this linguistic fact: in King James for example, the same word is rendered correctly, "yea rather" in Luke 11:28, wholly incongruously, "nay but" in Romans 9:20, but in Romans 10:18 the translation is again correct, "Yes verily". NRSV has both correct and elegant translations for all three. (See The Holy Mother and the "ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ")

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.

[CynicalBear]

>> Simple intellectual assent? Even the demons believe, and tremble...<<

There’s that ill thought out line again! People that use that line simply show ignorance of scripture. They think it’s some kind of gotcha when in reality it just makes them look really, really ignorant of what words mean.

Let’s look at where that line comes from.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

I so hope you noticed the bold red that. It means something and is different then in these verses.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

There is a distinct difference in the words used and that distinction makes a great deal of difference in the meaning of the sentence. Let’s get rid of that cliché that people try to use thinking they have done a gotcha somehow. It makes people look really ill educated.

[CynicalBear]

>>Yet this human tradition of salvation through simple intellectual assent,<<

Believing on Jesus Christ is NOT simple intellectual assent. It would be wise to understand the meaning of words when trying to interrelate with Holy Spirit filled Christians. Using words to change the meaning of scripture comes from a spirit but it is NOT the Holy Spirit.

[CynicalBear]

God willing indeed. And we can rest assured that His will is what will be done. I pray every day that there are those who read these posts who never post or may not even be members that God is trying to reach with His truth. Rest assured we are “preaching on the very basics of the Christian faith” for a reason. God has us here, at this time, for a reason.

Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

[CynicalBear]

And the Catholics on this forum have been told over and over again but they refuse to hear those words. They cannot hear them for their ears have been stopped up lest they see the error of their teachings.

[CynicalBear]

LOL I’m betting that the RCC crowd will let us know if we post any “blips”.

[Elsie]

I remember a LOT of them!

[Elsie]

THIS one gets the most use in these threads...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ

[Elsie]

LOTS of water in Texas!

When I was there, an electronic sign informed me the aquifier was at 163 feet.

[Elsie]

"κυριος" does indeed mean "lord" in every sense...

Oh?

[Elsie]

It doesn't because salvation is not promised to the unbaptized, or to those who don't receive Catholic Communion. It is an exception if they are saved

You are doing at least as good as Jim Jones did back in the day.

[Elsie]

I obey my Church ...

Indeed you do!

[Elsie]

Ah, capital letters. Convincing.

Ah, LOTSA letters. Convincing.

[Elsie]

NO man made law can save.

Hang onto this!

[Elsie]

Sweetie, you are noisy and do not seem to understand things spoken to you.

A GOOD teacher would tailor his lesson to the intended audience.

[Elsie]

On occasion you ask something I want others to see the answer to, then I post the answer.

On occasion you ask something I want others to see the CHURCH's answer to, then I post the answer.

Fixed.

[CynicalBear]

>> Jonh 5:24 requires Catohlic belief<<

I know a lot of those beliefs.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9

Now please show where the apostles taught the assumption and veneration of Mary.

[metmom]

How do Catholics know they’re doing the will of the Father?

How do they know that the works they’re doing are the works that GOD wants them to do?

[Elsie]

Mary in the Upper Room with the Church: Acts 1:14.

Your sentence implies THE "Upper Room" where the last supper, a regular Passover meal, was observed.

The scripture does NOT make this distinction.

Acts 1:13
When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying.

[Elsie]

The Bible says so, clearly, and leaves no room to doubt.

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

I read what is written...

Galatians 5:12