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Veneration of Mary in Luke 11:27-28
August 15, 2013 | Annalex

Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex

Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:

Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)

What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:

Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)

The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source
Note that there is no condemnation here, not even asking the woman to stop; the "yea rather" (μενουνγε) is not a negation. It is used other times in the New Testament without a hint of negation. In Philippians 3:8 "αλλα μενουνγε και ηγουμαι παντα ζημιαν ειναι", "Furthermore I count all things to be but loss" (Textus Receptus 1550/1894, Byzantine/Majority Text 2000 has here "αλλα μεν ουν και ηγουμαι…" which is the same word morphology spelled separately and colliding affirmative "γε" with the following "και"). Romans 9:20 "μενουνγε ω ανθρωπε συ τις ει ο ανταποκρινομενος τω θεω" and Romans 10:18 "μενουνγε εις πασαν την γην εξηλθεν ο φθογγος αυτων" use the word reinforcing the subsequent statement. Some translations obscure this linguistic fact: in King James for example, the same word is rendered correctly, "yea rather" in Luke 11:28, wholly incongruously, "nay but" in Romans 9:20, but in Romans 10:18 the translation is again correct, "Yes verily". NRSV has both correct and elegant translations for all three. (See The Holy Mother and the "ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ")

Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary
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To: annalex
...people interested in what Protestants think about Mary...

While people interested what GOD thought about Mary can read the Bible (that the Catholics compiled).

It is just FULL of ALL the wonderful things she did and is still doing today!

1,341 posted on 09/13/2013 2:01:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex
... that the Catholics compiled...

Did y'all know John Kerry was in Vietnam?

1,342 posted on 09/13/2013 2:02:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ctdonath2

Um, ctdonath, did you not get that he was saying Rome is her own rule?

Read that again, why don’tcha.


1,343 posted on 09/13/2013 2:02:29 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: annalex
Mary is in the Upper Room AFTER the ascension.

HUH?


He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

1,344 posted on 09/13/2013 2:04:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

“Mary is not God. She is not her own rule.

Indeed, but what i was referring to was Rome, according to what she effectively does, and contrary to Scripture.”

Well, some of us out here in Evangelical land knew exactly what you were saying, daniel. :)

Hmmm.....


1,345 posted on 09/13/2013 2:04:19 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: Elsie

“I know why I believe she is alive because this is what the Church says.

You believe what you say because someone else told you she is not.

You REALLY can’t see the humor in this; can you?”

So took the words right out of my mouth. lol


1,346 posted on 09/13/2013 2:06:15 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: annalex
Daniel is correct that it is a Catholic doctrine, but he is incorrect interpreting it as if it gives a warrant to Protestant heresies.

He didn't - merely pointed out the Catholic heresy in it.

1,347 posted on 09/13/2013 2:06:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“You have discovered the secret of Protestantism. I must congragulate you on your wisdom.

Mary SURE is busy!!!

http://www.marypages.com/

I coagulate you on her blessed appearances!”

Elsie,

Do you offer classes on how to learn your wit? If only.

Best,
jodyel


1,348 posted on 09/13/2013 2:08:10 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: BlueDragon

I was beginning to glaze, BlueDragon, and I admit I had to skim and move on. Whew! :)


1,349 posted on 09/13/2013 2:11:49 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: CynicalBear; teppe; restornu; Normandy
It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

And this is why Mormonism has proxy 'baptisms' for dead humans. (Too bad they'll NEVER know all the names of the dead...)


You NEED a name!


1 Samuel 28:11

Then said the woman: 'Whom shall I bring up unto thee?'
And he said: 'Bring me up Samuel.'

1,350 posted on 09/13/2013 2:13:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MarkBsnr; Elsie

“I coagulate you on her blessed appearances!

No, no, no, no, no. It is Jesus who shed His blood, not Mary. Mary was the vessel. Jesus was God. Honestly, it is hard not to facepalm when dealing with non Catholics.”

Well, blood does coagulate just as Elsie said, no matter whose is being shed.

Honestly, it is hard not to facepalm when dealing with Catholics!

This is just too much fun!


1,351 posted on 09/13/2013 2:15:20 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: RobbyS

“He wants his saints to be intercessors between him and us”

Robby,

Are you really that ignorant of Scripture?

My gosh, man!!


1,352 posted on 09/13/2013 2:18:02 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: Elsie

“I’d just as soon be silent and let GOD do the talking through His WORD.”

And therein lies the rub....they do not read His word. They read their man-made interpretation of His word called the Catholic catechism.

Sigh....


1,353 posted on 09/13/2013 2:20:03 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: CynicalBear
Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved.

Sounds like Romans..


Chapter 2

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

1,354 posted on 09/13/2013 2:21:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CynicalBear
Sounds like Romans is also mentioning our Catholics FRiends...


Chapter 2

 

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

1,355 posted on 09/13/2013 2:22:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“And then came the protestants...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmyXvEDAwM";

Don’t you know Miss Beyonce was not happy about performing for President Bush!


1,356 posted on 09/13/2013 2:22:40 AM PDT by jodyel (tly)
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To: annalex
You want to ask me a question, ask. That is what I am here for.

Ah...

You've decided to deal with me again?

1,357 posted on 09/13/2013 2:23:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex
I have no interest in "Prot. Perspective" at all.

After 1245 replies; we've already kinda figgered this out...

1,358 posted on 09/13/2013 2:24:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: smvoice

Wow!

Grasshopper is getting REALLY good!


1,359 posted on 09/13/2013 2:25:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex
For it is God who worketh in you

Sigh...

1,360 posted on 09/13/2013 2:25:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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