Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Amen. It’s what keeps me going, I’ll tell ya. And I’m sure the same thing can be said about you. It’s not always easy being an ambassador for Christ, but it certainly is both entertaining sometimes, and always an honor. The Body of Christ is so blessed by Him!
. only if one is unable to be baptized in water, like the thief on the cross. Believe whatever heresy you want but do not misinterpret the Catholic faith that I explained to you on this point a number of times. Baptism is, first, not any kind of work: it is a Holy Mystery; and second, baptism of desire is not an example of salvation without the sacrament, but only sacrament without the sacramental.
Actually, left to you we would never have seen this notable if controversial exception in Rome's soteriology, and i well knew the conditions in which it is allowed, and in fact it is not only taught that BOD is allowed if one is unable to be baptized in water, but that that one must essentially desire to be baptized.
And while Rome denies that baptism is a work, BOD from a Prot. perspective still is justification by a virile faith that will produce works.
Meanwhile, the standard strawman of RCs is one that asserts that sola fide denies that a real transformation takes place in which God doesn’t actually wipe away our sins, and that the faith that is counted for righteousness can be a faith that does not produce works, a life characterized by the obedience of faith . But which again, is what Rome as well as its institutionalized Protestant cousins overall fosters.
Hey, has anyone else’s pc gone pc on them? Yesterday I typed “popesicle” and it automatically changed the spelling to “popsicle”, without going to “spell”. It changes the “short i” to a “long I” also. After about 5 tries, it always lets me have my way, but i’m just wondering what the...?? It just did it again with this post.
I don’t think I’ve had it but maybe I need to proofread my posts even after I post.
It does not say our salvation is finished. If we have the kind of faith that works, then we would walk in the good works and then we are saved.
I think I will skip your posts, dear. Maybe some other time.
Yes. So these don't save and the Catholic Church does not teach that they do.
Yes; or rather that saving faith is inseparable from works. Not only Roman Catholic Church teaches that but all authentic churches, including those not in communion with Rome. The only heretics here are the Protestants like yourself.
Scripture teaches that works are the result of saving faith but it was the faith that saved, works had nothing to do with salvation. And that’s a huge difference.
No it doesn't: St. James says the opposite. Faith without works, -- the Protestant faith -- is dead.
"For we ARE His workmanship, created IN CHRIST Jesus UNTO good works..." Eph. 2:10.
You see there, you cannot have "good works" in God's eyes until you are IN Christ. And you are not "In Christ" until you accept His finished work for you. Salvation by grace through faith.
If you would just read the words as they are plainly stated, and not as you WANT them to say, the meaning would be crystal clear. There is no arguing what the plain word says. Unless you just don't want to accept it. And that is your choice. Just don't try to muddy the clear water of God's message by throwing stones of confusion.
Both these examples read naturally if you translate them like Douay does: without building assumptions who knew and who did not know something from the past. Since St. Paul was one generation older than Timothy, it is a natural reading that he, Paul, knew the grandmother better. Your reading is the one that builds assumptions here. The verb simply means “stir in the mind”, with the meaning “remember a known fact” being a narrow sense that does not always apply. Plus, the second case you still don’t understand: the issue is not that St. John knew about Diotrepes but that the readers of the letter did not at the time they were reading the letter.
Right: that is the teaching of the Catholic Church, that the Jewish laws do not save anyone who is Christian.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)
Not will pass, has passed.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
perfected, not are being, or will be, or anything other than perfected.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
hath perfected. Not will perfect, or is perfecting but hath perfected.
There are many more but do you see a trend forming there?
People interested in the truth will read my book, and people interested in what Protestants think about Mary can read his dissertation.
“Nay, rather” is a Protestant obfuscation, — read the article. Mary is in the Upper Room AFTER the ascension. Two assertions, two misstatements.
BUT..unfortunately for you, there is nothing you can do to earn a nod from God. Except accept His Son's finished work on your behalf. And that my friend, is the hardest thing of all for some people to do. *sigh*
Already posted once. I even remember you responding something not worthy of comment.
Let us then, as is becoming, as at all times, yet especially in the days of the feast, be not hearers only, but doers of the commandments of our Saviour; that having imitated the behaviour of the saints, we may enter together into the joy of our Lord which is in heaven, which is not transitory, but truly abides; of which evil doers having deprived themselves, there remains to them as the fruit of their ways, sorrow and affliction, and groaning with torments. Let a man see what these become like, that they bear not the likeness of the conversation of the saints, nor of that right understanding, by which man at the beginning was rational, and in the image of God. (St. Athanasius, Letters, 2 )Put ye on therefore, as the elect of God, holy, and beloved, the bowels of mercy, benignity, humility, modesty, patience: Bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if any have a complaint against another: even as the Lord hath forgiven you, so do you also. But above all these things have charity, which is the bond of perfection: And let the peace of Christ rejoice in your hearts, wherein also you are called in one body: and be ye thankful. (Colossians 3:12-15)
No, those were Jesus words in direct opposition to someone who wanted to praise Mary.
>>Mary is in the Upper Room AFTER the ascension. Two assertions, two misstatements.<<
That’s the best you got? I probably should have included “of any significance” but you want to turn that into a doctrine of veneration of Mary?
Nowhere directly, however it was the practice of the Church to consider those who died while still preparing for baptism as good as baptized. Daniel is correct that it is a Catholic doctrine, but he is incorrect interpreting it as if it gives a warrant to Protestant heresies.
"The mother of my Lord", Luke 1:43. "The Lord" is the name for God throughout the Greek scripture. I noted that before in this thread.
You’re no fooling any Spirit filled Christian. Didn’t the pope himself claim and doesn’t the Catholic Catechism state that people can be saved without even knowing Jesus? In other words by their works?
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
That is by definition “salvation by works”.
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