Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
|
| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Amen and amen!
307 on this thread. Gentleman, start your (pathetic) apologist machine....
Dude! There is no mention in post 307 about “Mary could have been a thrice married woman with 14 kids prior to the birth of Jesus…” How about really showing the post of anyone who said that along with the rest you supposedly quoted? Hmmm?
Context.
The thing the Catholic church avoids like the plague.
Every single verse or partial verse of Scripture they use to bolster their doctrines is shown to not be used correctly when taken in context.
Seriously, I humbly apologize for wasting your time. I was on the wrong Mary thread. The one I meant was “Jesus as Mary’s First-Born” But honestly, everything else I say is 100% accurate.... ;)
Indeed. Plus #307 is by a FRoman Catholic!
The entire passage, James 2:17-26 teaches that we are not saved by faith alone, pointedly and in context. That is all the Catholic Church teaches also. What you make of it is up to you. If you have questions I will explain.
Not going down the rabbit trail again.
Yet, the scripture says: you are not saved by faith alone. So, the moment your separate faith from works, you faith becomes dead. That you see faith through works does not mean faith can be without works.
Dead.
Wrong.
It clearly says saved BY grace THROUGH faith.
Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created inChrist Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
The promise is to "teach all things" and do so "for ever", so in context we understand that it is not making believers (of any confession) remember something they have not witnessed, but rather leading them as if Christ is leading them.
The “church” there is referencing the local autonomous “assembly” of believers
That could be but since the result of the dispute resolution of that local church binds in heaven, all churches in question must be Catholic, of the same faith. Or in your superstition there are local heavens also?
See my post on that question just above.
I am Catholic, I stand by my statement that Jesus did not receive His divinity from Mary, and I will stand corrected if any fellow Catholic proves me wrong form the Catechism, patristic consensus, or the Holy Scripture.
But of course. It is Christ breaking the gates of hell on Holy Saturday. That is how the gates of hell did not prevail against the Holy Catholic Church. Have you ever seen the paschal Resurrection icon? It is very educational.
I am fully aware of that. Are you trying to teach me the Holy Scripture?
That is precisely the issue: God prepared works for you and you say they are something secondary. You kill your faith.
So you know somehow what “works” I do or don’t do? Wow! No wonder Catholics can’t understand the clear meaning of scripture when we post it. Making things up in their minds about what I do is probably easily transferred to making things up about scripture. Come to think of it there is that assumption of Mary thing.
James 2:17-26 is "wrong"? I believe the Holy Scripture, which anyone can check, rather than you.
It clearly says saved BY grace THROUGH faith. [cites Eph. 2]
No, it is not all it says. It also says "you should walk in good works". I believe the holy Scripture, because I am Catholic. I don't believe your phoney interpretations that you must have picked from Protestant charlatans.
No I don't; I know the principles of your faith and the Bible says that's a dead faith.
Yep, and the Holy Spirit is still teaching us through the words of scripture.
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. John 14:16,17
>> so in context we understand that it is not making believers (of any confession) remember something they have not witnessed, but rather leading them as if Christ is leading them. <<
Now explain to me how that translates into someone other than the apostles “remembering” what Christ said and did? The concept is preposterous. Only the apostles can “remember” but the rest of us can learn by guidance of the Holy Spirit but in no way can we “remember” what Christ said and did.
>> That could be but since the result of the dispute resolution of that local church binds in heaven, all churches in question must be Catholic, of the same faith.<<
LOL Change that capitol C to a small c and understand that it simply means universal and it makes sense. Keep the capitol C and it becomes a usurpation by the cult of the RCC.
>> Or in your superstition there are local heavens also? <<
ROFL It’s the Catholics who have the magical, mysterious, superstitious transubstantiation, the assumption of Mary, and the “queen of heaven” pagan beliefs.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.