Posted on 08/05/2013 10:31:02 AM PDT by Gamecock
Question:
Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?
Answer:
Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:
1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.
2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worship—regarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.
3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for all—Hebrews 9:25-28.
We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.
>> “Jesus needed to be, in all ways, a perfect human.” <<
.
NO, no, no!
Yeshua needed to be a sinless man.
His temptation had to be real; there had to be the possibility that he could fail, or the temptation would have been nothing but theater, much like a catholic mass.
First, I used the search function to find every instance of the word "flower" in this article. In every instance, this article said it is not a flower.
Now, there may be other articles that say the contrary. If so, fine. But this article stated it is not a flower ---that's the author's opinion, not mine.
Second, I never called Mary Magdalene a pagan. Neither does the Catholic Church call her a pagan.(Where do you get this stuff?) We call her a Saint.
Third, it's the article you linked to, which said the hex sign has extensive pre-Jewish and pagan links. I did not express an opinion about it, except to say that if it does have pagan origins, that's all right by me.
Again, you have taken the author's opinion, rather twisted the meaning, and then atttributed it to me.
Please don't do that.
Fourth, you follow up with charges of historic aggressions by Catholics. We could go back in history and trade charge for charge, wound for wound, tit for tat, but I refuse to do so. I refuse to revive the Wars of Religion of the 16th century.
If that's your particular interest, go right ahead, but with somebody else. Leave me out of it.
Keep it amiable and peaceable and we can learn from each other and be friends.
B.A.S.I.C. --- Brothers And Sisters In Christ.
Peace be with you.
Mrs. Don-o
>> “THIS is a new one!” <<
.
Then add it to the Talmud!
Catholics and Rabbis are allowed to make up things, and when they do, Yehova has to accept their rulings.
I thought that you knew that.
>> “first, there was a need for Jesus the Messiah to be perfect in His human nature” <<... Yes, that required that his mother be a sinner as she was.
Mary is not "required" to be a sinner so that Jesus the Messiah could be perfect in His human nature. This is a non-sequitur.
"The real significance is that Mary, like all humans was full of sin, and needed to be filled with grace to save her soul."
Scripture, however, specifically states that Mary was "Full of Grace." It never calls her "Full of Sin." She was saved from sin by the Prevenient Grace which she received from her Redeemer, Jesus Christ. That's why she can be recognized as truly "blessed" and totally "full of grace" and rejoice in God [her] Savior.
Because "He who is mighty has done great things for me."
I am moved to say, "Amen."
I agree with that. It does not contradict the fact that He was a perfect man. In fact, it proves it.
"...theater, much like a catholic mass."
(Rolls eyes.) Lame.
Christians further believe that Jesus is able to be in many places at once, even though there is only one Jesus.
THIS is a new one!
I sure hope it is not new.
who is the speaker in Revelation 3:20? “behold, i stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, i will come into to him and eat with him, and he with me.”
we both believe it is Jesus Christ speaking, and we both believe there is only one Jesus. yet He makes His abode in every believer, how can that be? isn’t He in heaven at this moment?
the answer of course is He is eternal God, He always was God, He always will be God. God is not restrained by time and space, God created time and space. The fact that He took on a human nature in time and space did not diminish His divine nature in any way.
you had to be there!
is figurative-literal language
this is an interesting admission, in what sense is the language “literal”?
“The impasse is insurmountable except through intervention by the Holy Ghost”
i agree with this statement 100%, i wonder if you might share your opinion as to why it was not an issue for the first 15 centuries of the Christian era and why did the Holy Spirit choose to wait until the 16th century to enlighten some to the true doctrine?
Jesus isn’t dead and he isn’t on the cross. Why does anyone use a crucifix? The sight of the crucifix, as a symbol of my Lord in pain and death, is gruesome to me.
It is to me, as well. I think it also plays down the truth of the resurrection and the Apostle Paul says if Christ be not risen our faith is in vain, we are dead in our sins and without hope in this world and “Of all men most miserable”.
well, i guess Paul was playing down the truth of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 2:2 “ For i decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified”
how can the Church be accused of downplayig the resurrection, when we have proclaimed “ He is risen!” for 2,000 years and the reason we worship on Sunday is because it recalls the resurrection?? it never ceases to amaze some stuff i read on this forum!
i guess if we celebrate the birth of Jesus by displaying a baby in a creche, that is downplaying the fact he grew up to be a man and by extension the resurrection as well??
see how silly some arguements are if one takes them to their logical conclusion?
Well, not everyone worships on Sunday. I worship on Saturday. AND.. preaching that Jesus died for our sins, is not the same thing as making a graven image of a decaying human form on a cross, and worshiping at it.
That verse doesn’t say that we are to worship a crucifix. Not at all.
And some people are at worship services to learn about the ministry and the character of Jesus, of God and the teachings He left us. We are learning to observe the law the festivals He commanded us to observe, how He wired the Universe and the ministry of the Holy Spirit, so we could have victory over the darkness.
Those people in the bible show how they reacted to GOD - they believed HIM and His favor flowed!! And they accepted 'the assignment' on their life - and each of us has one. The same as today - we are to HEAR and OBEY HIM alone - and how many do? That is the will of The FATHER.
How many would be as faithful as Joseph, for example. He had a dream, believed it, spoke of it and his own family/brothers left him in a pit because 'he thought he was special' and then lived as a slave and thrown in jail and for 13 years kept that one dream alive - because GOD was HIS FINAL authority. He didn't believe anyone but GOD knewGod.
HIS ONE dream was enough for HIM!! You have the WORDS of JESUS for YEARS and still listen to 'man' and are persuaded by 'man'. You would never have been thrown in a pit, etc - and been able to do the things Joseph (and others listed) did. And Joseph would have missed his destiny if he listened to another! And many many do miss it because they don't believe JESUS and ONLY JESUS! Only those that are able to do the Father's will are those we hear and obey ONLY HIM!
If you claim Jesus is your Savior - then how could you possibly listen to anyone else? Why would you? Either you believe JESUS is LORD over all or HE isn't. There is NO a little of this and a little of that. Either His Word is your FINAL authority or it isn't. God's WORD IS the Final authority or you don't believe HIM.
And you get no title for it - being 'one of HIS' and spending LIFE eternally with HIM should be enough. It IS for all those who do belong to HIM and they are called Christians - those who listen to Jesus The Christ ALONE.
Yes, to some, obeying the word of God is silly. To some it is not. We each choose who we shall worship and obey and serve.
That is true.
That verse doesn’t say that we are to worship a crucifix. Not at all
hmmm, that is a very interesting comment. i am 54 years old and i have never met anyone who worships a crucifix, i was always taught that we are to worship God alone, anything else is idolatry. can you tell us anyone or any group that teaches we are to worship a crucifix?
p.s. i realize not everyone worships on Sunday, i only stated why the Catholic Church worships on the first day of the week.
who believes obeying the word of God is silly?
WRONG! ALL means ALL. It's calling GOD a Liar and Scripture says "God is not a man, that He should lie ; neither the Son of man, that He should repent : hath He said , and shall He not do it? or hath He spoken , and shall He not make it good ?
And why are you deliberating ignoring 'God is no respector of person'? What part of ALL do you feel REQUIRED to IGNORE? Why do you feel REQUIRED to do that? Think about what disobedience REQUIRES.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
He is SO me!
aybe GOD the Father or the Holy Spirit can be EVERYWHERE; but Jesus the Messiah, with a HUMAN body is ONLY gonna be one place atatime!
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