Posted on 08/05/2013 10:31:02 AM PDT by Gamecock
Question:
Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?
Answer:
Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:
1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.
2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worship—regarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.
3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for all—Hebrews 9:25-28.
We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.
I do not understand the trust of your contaent here with reference to Post 528m, the comment which yours is supposed to be about. 528 says nothing about Jesus’ words. I’m at sea here —
Oh...
Like Romney; eh?
You've baffled the smart one among us.
We don’t, he does.
We don’t, he does.
For BOTH?
For someone else.
Those that are drawn to the things of Yehova are his election. We cannot come to his son without his invitation.
. "I do not understand the trust thrust of your contaent comment here on Post 625 (with reference to Post 528), the comment which yours your answer is supposed to be about. My Post 528 says nothing about Jesus’ words. I’m at sea here —"
This is so obscure that I can't guess what you are talking about, nor the point you wish to make. You'll have to present your thought with a little more detail so as to define what you are writing about.
as you know, i am not a computer expert and can’t cut your statements before mine like so many do (i wish i could! ), but i will comment as best i can:
1. when you have the truth of orthodox, historical Christian Faith believed for 2,000 years, you aren’t swayed by 16th century tradition of men.
2. Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, the Catholic Church. it has been here for 2,000 years ( the gates of hell never prevailed aganst it )
3. the doctrine of the Real Presence ( the Eucharist ) has NOT developed over the centuries. NO ONE can point to any controversy over it before the “reformers” came on earth. ( unlike the Trinity, divinity of Christ, the nature of Christ, the Holy Spirit, etc )
4. The Scriptures tell us scoffers will appear in the latter days and the comments about “mysterious” and “special prayers” and “right kind” certainly show scoffing personified.
5. i have shown over and over a consistent belief in the Real Presence from Paul to the Didache to Ignatius to Justin to Irenaeus etc etc up until today. the APOSTOLIC Faith can either be accepted as Christians have for 2,000 years or it can be rejected and replaced by unbelief or Gnosticism, or Arianism, or fill in the blankism.
since you mentioned Athanatius in a prior post, i will show you what he taught the newly baptized on the Eucharist, 1000 years before the 13th century.
6. you say “all we should do and take what the Scriptures say”, I AGREE!!!! what do the Scriptures say? THIS IS MY BODY. Flat out statement, IS not REPRESENTS. Paul received the doctrine of the Eucharist DIRECTLY FROM JESUS. THE BREAD WHICH WE BREAK, IS IT NOT A PARTICIPATION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST? again, we don’t see the word “represents” in this passage or any time the Eucharist is discussed.
finally, as to what you believe or don’t believe, it’s not for me to judge. all i know is Jesus prayed in John 17 that all those who truly believe in Him would be perfectly One, just as He and the Father are One, SO THE WORLD WOULD KNOW THE FATHER SENT HIM. I believe that prayer was heard and i believe that true Christians are obedient to the Faith that proclaims ONE LORD, ONE FAITH AND ONE BAPTISM.
HERE IS THE BONUS ST ATHANASIUS QUOTE:
St. Athanasius was born in Alexandria ca. 295 A.D. He was ordained a deacon in 319 A.D. He accompanied his bishop, Alexander, to the Council of Nicaea, where he served as his secretary. Eventually he succeeded Alexander as Bishop of Alexandria. He is most known for defending Nicene doctrine against Arian disputes.,
“’The great Athanasius in his sermon to the newly baptized says this:’ You shall see the Levites bringing loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers of supplication and entreaties have not been made, there is only bread and wine. But after the great and wonderful prayers have been completed, then the bread is become the Body, and the wine the Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ. ‘And again:’ Let us approach the celebration of the mysteries. This bread and this wine, so long as the prayers and supplications have not taken place, remain simply what they are. But after the great prayers and holy supplications have been sent forth, the Word comes down into the bread and wine - and thus His Body is confected.”,
-”Sermon to the Newly Baptized” ante 373 A.D.,
WHY is that?
Because one group of people rejects what Joseph Smith taught, namely that the Church of Christ went apostate in the 2nd century. We reject Joseph Smith and hold the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church has been on earth continuously for 2,000 years just as Jesus said it would.
another group of people, while saying that reject Joseph Smith and Mormonism, never the less provide the kindle for the Mormon fire by agreeing the Church went apostate at some time ( although they disagreeon just when ) and that it had to be restored in the 16th century as opposed to Joseph Smith and his 19th century restoration.
No, its not obscure.
Go back to the post to which I responded and it will be crystal clear.
Apparently, you do not "hear" well. I just said it was, told you it was, and until you make exactly clear both what you are responding to and what you mean in your response, there'll be no more on this.
My time is precious, and I'm not going to waste it trying to imagine what kind of acknowkedgement you want.
Ok...
Just HOW do we know if we (or someone else) 'belongs to Christ'?
Do they, unlike the MORMONs, have any EVIDENCE of this 'apostate' thingy?
Might they have a LIST of complaints; unlike the MORMONs?
Did they ADD anything to Scripture; like the MORMONs?
Clear?
Your stuff is SO bad (How bad is it?) that the Smart Guy can’t figger it out.
I'll just bet it is!
1. do they have evidence? not if the Scriptures are true, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said the gates of hell will not prevail against it. further on, He promised to be with the Church ALWAYS, even til the end of the world. in addition, the Scriptures tell us the elect can not be fooled. finally, the Scriptures do teach there will be a great falling away from the Faith right before the end of the world. we are witnessing this falling away in our lifetime.
2. they did have a list of complaints and actually some were legitimate.
3. they did not add to the Scriptures like the Mormons, they subtracted from it. they removed 7 books from the OT that was in every Bible up until they came along in the 16th century.
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