Posted on 08/05/2013 10:31:02 AM PDT by Gamecock
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
2 Peter 2:8
(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
So; just WHERE did the 'righteous man' get the non-alcoholic wine that managed to incapacitate him?
Looks like MY mocking spirit has infected you!
Better watch who you be hangin’ wid!
At times; it can be.
At times; they could be.
Glad you are resting in His peace now.
Oh; I saw your verses; but they did not have the effect that the SPIN put on them was supposed to have.
The large point that Paul made is that our bodies will have to be CHANGED from corruptible to Incorruption.
He does not explain any mechanics of the method(s) of change.
http://www.catholiceternaltruth.com/2010/08/assumption-of-mary.html might address your point to your satisfaction.
Just WAY too much ASSUMIN' going on!
In Romans 5:12[4] it is explicitly stated in Scripture that death is the consequence of sin. This is not an isolated passage in Scripture St. Paul reaffirms this over and over again in his letters.[5] The Holy Scripture attests that sin and death came from Satan and for Mary to be in complete enmity of Satan she must necessarily be free from sin[6]
B. The Adam/Eve bit is irrelevant to resurrection. (Bong)
C. Did He have blood? His open wounds did not leak. (Bong)
D. Rom. 8:11 Before I was rescued, my body, soul, and spirit were dead to God. When the Holy Spirit entered, he made my body, soul, and spirit alive unto God. Now. Because of Adams sin, his flesh that is my flesh will stop working, it's corruptible; and my soul and spirit that are now alive to Him will remain sentient and alive unto Him, they are new, born of the Spirit, incorruptible. In the fullness of time, He will provide me with a new body. Since God is always good, all the time, he wlll provide just the body I always wanted, like Christ's. About the blood, life is in the blood as long as the body's lungs provide oxygen and glucose, removing oxidized cee oh two and uric acid. when that stops, life goes out of the blood and the old man passes away, forever. The new body won't need oxygen or food, so blood won't be needed to get the energy products moved around or eliminated. Flesh and bone will be enough -- spiritual flesh, whatever that is. (Bong)
E. Time to go mortify a few deeds --
(Does God need oxygen? Coffee and donuts?)
I'm obtuse??? You're the one who claimed that Jesus had the same physical body in heaven as he did on earth...You pointed out how Jesus had the same method of evacuating food as we do...
I'm just pointing out some of your odd ideas...
Now let me tell you this: God never gave us alcoholic drink as a gift.
Friend, it is obvious that you see personal problems from alcoholic use. But, it is also obvious that you may misunderstand the wedding feast scene. I will make an attempt to explain my understanding of that miracle. My God can do anything at any time. Jesus is God incarnate.
At the feast, which was an ongoing multi-day event, the family was running out of wine, fermented Alcoholic wine. We can see this from the circumstance and customs of the day. It was a party, a celebration, and the wine was flowing freely.
John 2: 9... the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” (- NIV)
When reading this, it is clear to me that the guests were drinking a wine containing alcohol ("...after the guests have had too much to drink"). It is also clear that the new wine presented to the "master of the banquet" was alcohol, and that it was really good wine, much better than that which had been served already. I would expect nothing less from God.
You POV is not Biblical. It seems more personal, and biased from some life experience(s). Alcoholism is a societal problem, and alcohol abuse is a major problem in our world. But, sin is defined as "missing the mark", as an arrow shot toward the bullseye target. Excess of any kind is sinful.
A friend of mine is a heart surgeon and he advised me (back in 1994) to drink a glass or two of RED wine every day (not grape juice). His advice was based on the many studies of wine usage in the Mediterranean countries. Those people eat a lot of fats and carbs and do not have the same physical problems we see in modern Americans. The key is that red wine has shown some benefits to help maintain metabolic activities, and heart health. He's a pretty smart guy.
I buy cheap red table wines by the box. That way, I am not "killing" a bottle to have a glass. A 3 liter box will last me more than a week, even when having two glasses a day. I drink it every day.
My "friend" Paul also gave that advice... i Timothy 5: 22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure. 23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.) 24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later.
Wine is a gift from God and was used for most times. Ask Noah if he drank grape juice... (Genesis 9: 20ff)
Well, this belief, in one form or another, has been in place since the first generation of Christians. The Orthodox version is called ‘the Dormition’. The Latin version is called ‘the Assumption’. Unless you think that all Christianity was to some extent corrupted immediately on this (and other subjects) immediately after Jesus was Resurrected, then that may be something to consider.
If you are taught from the womb that your church offers the only source of your salvation, you stay in that church, regardless of Scriptural truths presented to you.
If you are taught from the womb that a woman is perfect, and a co-redemptress, then you pray to her or to some other dead folk because they obviously (to those who are so taught) have an inside track to God's ear. They will not listen because they fear for their eternal souls. Of course, they are also taught that others can bail you out of their so-called purgatory (another unfounded lie). WE KNOW that there is only one mediator, and one God.
You can quote Scripture all day and night, and the only response will come from some catechismal teachings, not from God's Word. They cannot see any truths because their church tells them what is true. But, they are beholden to men subject to error (though claiming to be speaking for God). They can't see that all their gilt statues and icons are idols and they use terms such as "venerate" when they worship and pray to those same idols. Error begets error and it is compounded within their history.
We must continue to provide the Word in our responses to the misleading and error-filled abuses of some manmade institutions that demand absolute loyalty to that error. We must also pray that the Holy Spirit will touch other souls through their muddy obfuscation of God's Word!
Thanks for your efforts. I pray for you often, but come to these threads only occasionally... and post when I cannot help myself!
Grape juice without refrigeration begins to become wine in about three or four days.
I knew if I waited patiently long enough you and I would find a topic that we are in complete agreement on. Thank you
At the feast, which was an ongoing multi-day event, the family was running out of wine, fermented Alcoholic wine. We can see this from the circumstance and customs of the day. It was a party, a celebration, and the wine was flowing freely.
When reading this, it is clear to me that the guests were drinking a wine containing alcohol ("...after the guests have had too much to drink"). It is also clear that the new wine presented to the "master of the banquet" was alcohol, and that it was really good wine, much better than that which had been served already. I would expect nothing less from God.
It's not that clear to me...Mary was highly religious; devout...While the bible speaks of wine, fermented and un-fermented, I see multiple warnings in the scriptures against drinking fermented wine...Hard to believe Mary would be getting sloshed up or any devoutly religious group...
Like much of Europe, the drinking water in that part of the world is terrible...Many people drink the 'fruit of the vine' just to keep from drinking water...
I see nothing in John 2 that says the wine has to be fermented grape juice...If their drink of choice was grape juice over water, I can see all the verses could apply to grape juice...
Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Pro 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
While Jesus sought out these kinds of partiers to witness to, seems unlikely Mary would be inclined to have friends like this...In fact, those Jews condemned Jesus for hangin' out with these people...
My condolences, losing a child is the most difficult thing in the world.
Stating an obvious truth is not mocking.
Don’t be a stranger...
Does "WHEN THE GUESTS HAVE HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK" give you any indication? Also, "Mary was highly religious" means nothing. Jesus rebuked her in that same passage...
You can choose not to drink alcohol for whatever reason. But to say that Scripture FORBIDS it's use is stretching most of what I have read and learned. Our life is not ours now, though, as followers of Christ, and if something you wish to eat (or drink) offends your "brother", we are taught to refrain from it.
"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord". If you don't want to drink some wine, I will put the box in the closet!
In fact, those Jews condemned Jesus for hangin' out with these people...
They crucified him for it!
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