History of the Catholic Church: From the Apostolic Age to the Third Millennium

http://www.amazon.com ^ | Deember 19, 2012 | James Hitchcock

[Biggirl]

Your opinion and your opinon only.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for this clear and reasonable explanation.

Is that allowed on FR? ;oP

[Mrs. Don-o]

It's just a little odd to hear you call the Biblical account of the founding of the Church a "race card." I am sure you are not saying that Peter is a race, or that Jesus is a racist. So your point is obscure.

I do wonder why, in your opinion, Jesus actually changed Simon Bar-Jonah's name. ("Thou art Peter, but nevermind, it makes no difference, thou art NOT the Rock..." ?)

You may be making a good point, but as I said before, I am not sure what it is.

[FourtySeven]

Thanks for posting.

[USS Johnston]

Your opinion and your opinon only.

Try History....

Oh wait -- you'd prefer the "Follow the Yellowbrick Road to OZ" version, right?

Turns out the Vatican was...hijacked. Despite the effort if some well-meaning folks. Power soon trumped Spreading the Gospel. No need to review the entire awful history, is there?

[USS Johnston]

The Bible is a Catholic document, compiled by Catholic scholars. Prove me wrong.

In whose Name did the authors pen the word of God or "Bible"? Was it FOR the "Catholic Church"? "Emperors?" "Popes?" OR for posterity and God's Children?

[Cronos]

technically the Jews aren't an institution, but an ethno-cultural-religious group akin to the Armenians and the Parsis in maintaining their sense of identity by means of retaining a distinct language, religion and by selectively marrying only within the community.

The present-day form of Rabbinical Judaism dates from the 3rd to 5th centuries with the compilation of the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli) with the Sura Academy and the Pumbeditha -- both close to modern day Baghdad and Fallujah

This is the mainstream as opposed to Karaite Judaism or Samaritanism

[Cronos]

sasportas: is one of the biggest lies of history.

Did the Injil Moroni tell you that?

[Cronos]

though not in Rome mostly in Spain, took place before the Protestant Reformation

Do read your history. your statement is doubly wrong. "tyrannical persecution" is itself a misnomer as the Inquisition only judged those who were Catholics. It had no jurisdiction over Jews or Muslims. Jews and Muslims were removed in the 1500s due to the Spanish fear of a fifth column supporting the Moors to re-take al-Andalus.

Secondly, the inquisition was about the same time as the PR

[Cronos]

you do know that John 4:22 can be interpreted different ways as either being “from the Jews” signifying Jesus Christ or other ways.

[Cronos]

Who really controlled what history recorded then anyways? The Church

Not completely. The Italians were pretty independently minded right from the 12th century onwards. Granted, the majority of history was written by clerics, but that was not all

[Cronos]

sasportas Constantinian Christianity -- no such thing. Only Mormons claim that. What "Mormon prophet" are you quoting?

[BipolarBob]

“technically the Jews aren’t “. Still straining at gnats and swallowing elephants?

[Cronos]

establish himself as Head Rabbi ... as in 'Vicars of Christ,' 'Pontifex Maximus,' holding dominion over an Empire,

Note of course that the concept of Rabbinical Judaism dates from really after the destruction of the second template in 70 AD, and more specifically to 136 AD with the vast Jewish revolt (many non-Jews etc. were killed in cyprus etc. and the roman reprisal was harsh, banning jews outright from Jerusalem)

Note also that Pontifex Maximus translates as head priest so can be construed as you say Head rabbi. Also, pontifex maximus technically is not a title of the Pope

Also, Vicar derives from Latin Vicarius signifying deputy as in deputy to Christ

Finally "holding dominion over an Empire" -- what are you referring to?

[Cronos]

The rest of Europe was bloody enough. Orders were given from the Vatican.

the latter statement is utterly wrong

The former is not completely correct. What are the origins of the Inquisition? it dates to the 8th century and the Moslem conquest of Spain. It took the Spanish 700 years to boot the Moslem rulers out. But even after that, there were moslems still in Spain.

the converts were also suspected of being closet Moslems and that removal was the aim of the Inquisition.

[USS Johnston]

Finally "holding dominion over an Empire" -- what are you referring to?

Uuh, that would be the Empire established by Constantine as well as for centuries of rule by the Holy Roman Empire whose allegiance was demanded NOT of and for Jesus Christ, but of and for the Pope/Emperor.

Btw, technical semantics aside, history notes that the "Vicar of Christ" has been anything but in most cases.

[USS Johnston]

At the moment I must leave, but if you want to debate blow-by-blow the subversiveness of many Popes and Vatican throughout the ages, we can go there too.

With respect to dispelling Islam from Europe, the Papal Decree was undoubtedly in the right.

[Cronos]

Uuh, that would be the Empire established by Constantine

Then you are quite wrong

The Byzantine Empire soon enough forgot about Rome and it was influenced more by the Alexandrian, Antiochian and above all the Constantinople Patriarchs

as well as for centuries of rule by the Holy Roman Empire

Again wrong -- you have heard of the Guelphs and Ghibellines, right? That presence in Italy is enough to tell you that the Popes didn't "hold Dominion over the HRE" -- some may have tried, but beyond the ability to crown the HRE, they didn't have any pull to "hold dominion"

whose allegiance was for the Pope/Emperor -- again, completely wrong -- please do read some history -- the oath went ""I swear, by God and the Holy Bible, to righteously serve my Kaiser, Holy Roman Emperor and King of all Germans, until the day I die. I will defend the Holy Roman Empire and the people of it, with my life if necessary. I will also uphold and follow the laws of the Empire and serve the Reichstag with honour and dignity. May God send his divine punishment if I ever break my oaths to the rightful Kaiser and the Holy Roman Empire.""-- to the Emperor, not the Pope

So this disproves your earlier statement cmpletely

[Cronos]

Nope, I don’t have your habits

[Cronos]

you said "what about the Jews" -- the Jewish religion etc. as an ethno-religio-cultural entity is not an institution -- it is still venerable, but not an institution. If one dives to specifics, the Jewish rabbinate is an institution but post-dates the Church and does not have a continuous history

Stop reading things part-way. That leads to errors in Bible reading as well as history etc.