Thanks, and thanks for sharing that passage. I’d never considered that before, and it nicely closes the “circle” (so to speak). That is to say, clearly we have from Scripture:
- the prayers of the righteous availeth much (Jas 5:16)
And
- The fact that God Himself doesn’t reject the notion of Moses and Samuel coming to Him in prayer for His people (cf Jer 15:1) even though they are already “saints that have departed”
So the only thing one can “argue” at this point is as I’ve said all along: Whether or not it’s possible for those in heaven to “hear” our prayers for intercession.
I leave that to the reader to decide for himself as these debates can be toxic for me after a while so I have no desire to engage them fully.
I would submit though, for anyone who doesn’t have a pre-determined agenda against the Church, I don’t think it’s that objectionable at all to believe those in heaven can indeed hear our cries for help. After all, it seems quite reasonable to me that at least our departed loved ones will still care for us even in heaven. That is, I doubt they stop caring about us just because they are “there”.
But I guess that’s what some believe. I guess some believe their departed loved ones don’t care about them anymore enough to at least hear a prayer from their loved ones here on earth. Or I guess they believe in some “God” that would be so cruel as to prevent them from hearing what their loved ones on earth would want to share with them.
That’s certainly not my view of what God, or heaven could ever be like. And I don’t care if someone objects with the foolishly utilized “Scripturally based” (Scripturally based in their opinion, more like taken out of context) argument of ,”the wisdom of man is foolishness to God” and/or “you have to out on the mind of Christ, and discard the carnal mind” which such people use as justification to not use the brain God GAVE them ( hmm, i wonder what God says about not using one’s talents again...) to reach reasonable conclusions.
No sir. I have no desire to converse with such willfully obtuse children anymore. I simply do not have the time ( or patience, obviously ).
So thank you again, for both your compliment and assistance. It (your contribution) surely will be a help to those with an open mind and/or heart (as Paisan seems to be).
To the rest, my advice is to not waste your precious time.
And so what's the point of having saints in heaven pray for us?
We have Jesus interceding for us and the Holy Spirit interceding for us, both according to the will of God (which should go without saying).
WHY go to the saints? Is God too busy? Do people think God isn't listening to them or going to listen to them?
Do they think the more people asking on their behalf is going to change God's mind?
Are they going to do something for them that God Himself would not do, IOW to act contrary to God's will?
Jesus Himself told us to pray to the Father and promised the HE would hear and answer us. Is that not good enough?
What more would someone want than to have the Creator of the whole universe Himself promise to hear and answer our prayers Himself?
From reading the prayers directed to the saints, it sure seems that people think that the saints are more compassionate and merciful towards humans than God Himself is.
"Hey, so and so, ask God for me....."
What an appalling lack of trust in God to do what is right and lack of faith in the promises Jesus made about prayer and the Father.